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From a status perspective, the wealthier you are the more time & money it costs to have&raise children. Housing, childcare, education, etc... basically all the

From a status perspective, the wealthier you are the more time & money it costs to have&raise children. Housing, childcare, education, etc... basically all the things that have gone up at a much higher clip than official CPI inflation calculations. Being a wealthy person in liberal western society you are likely to live in a high cost urban setting. Some real NYC numbers that I am sure SF is similar for. * Housing No kids? Rent a decent 1BR place for $3-4k/mo in any neighborhood you want. 1-2 Kids you can squeeze into a 2BR? Rent is now $6k (2-3 kids / need a 3BR make that 10k), and you are now limited to neighborhoods that are zoned for "good schools". * Childcare? $2k/mo per kid * Education? If your kid doesn't get tracked the way you want / you aren't zoned in the right catchment area / you have bought into the arms race - private school is $4k/mo per kid So 0->1 kid is +$5-9k/mo 0->2 kids is +$7-15k/mo 0->3 kids is +$13-25k/mo These are post-tax numbers so 1st kid requires +$100k of income and at the high end the 3 kids could mean needing +$500k income. There are a lot of great cities you could cut these numbers in half, or in a quarter, but scale should be fairly similar. Without immigration & some more conservative families, we'd probably see the same population aging/declines of Western Europe and Japan/Taiwan/Korea.

ac29 6y ago
What you're describing is basically the top 1% of US households, which starts around $500k/yr income. Even in NY or SF, very very few people are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on childcare and private schooling. I'd agree there is a status/social signalling element to it - I suspect if these households didn't have children, many of them would just spend their wealth on expensive cars, clothes, vacations, or other similar luxuries.
- steveBK123 6y ago
  Housing, childcare and education are three of the highest inflation categories outside of medical care. The more kids you have, the more of each you need, and the costs are basically linear. Outside the 1% the numbers are lower, but it's obviously much harder when expressed as percentage of income. 2 interesting links: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/11/20/income-it-takes-to-be-considered-rich-in-every-state/114967522/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/11/20/income-it-ta... https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/child-care-costs-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/child-care-... "The average cost of providing center-based care for an infant in the U.S. is $1,230 per month. " So on AVERAGE, having 2 kids in daycare is $30k/year nationally. For most anyone, anywhere, $30k/year is a lot of money. Benchmarking "average 2 kids childcare cost" in state against "top 20% income after tax" in state: Nebraska 30% Connecticut 26% Pennsylvania 25% Virginia 25% Arizona 23% New Mexico 20% And again this is average childcare cost vs richest 20% (who may likely spend more than average). People lowering down the bracket closer to average income also need childcare, which is going to consume a higher percent of income. Sometimes this means one spouse exists the workforce involuntarily to do childcare as the cost of daycare exceeds the lower paid spouses income. Other times it means less formal forms of childcare with the associated costs/risks implied. Some happily choose to be a full-time parent, and the money does not factor in.

ac29 6y ago

What you're describing is basically the top 1% of US households, which starts around $500k/yr income. Even in NY or SF, very very few people are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on childcare and private schooling. I'd agree there is a status/social signalling element to it - I suspect if these households didn't have children, many of them would just spend their wealth on expensive cars, clothes, vacations, or other similar luxuries.

steveBK123 6y ago
Housing, childcare and education are three of the highest inflation categories outside of medical care. The more kids you have, the more of each you need, and the costs are basically linear. Outside the 1% the numbers are lower, but it's obviously much harder when expressed as percentage of income. 2 interesting links: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/11/20/income-it-takes-to-be-considered-rich-in-every-state/114967522/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/11/20/income-it-ta... https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/child-care-costs-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/child-care-... "The average cost of providing center-based care for an infant in the U.S. is $1,230 per month. " So on AVERAGE, having 2 kids in daycare is $30k/year nationally. For most anyone, anywhere, $30k/year is a lot of money. Benchmarking "average 2 kids childcare cost" in state against "top 20% income after tax" in state: Nebraska 30% Connecticut 26% Pennsylvania 25% Virginia 25% Arizona 23% New Mexico 20% And again this is average childcare cost vs richest 20% (who may likely spend more than average). People lowering down the bracket closer to average income also need childcare, which is going to consume a higher percent of income. Sometimes this means one spouse exists the workforce involuntarily to do childcare as the cost of daycare exceeds the lower paid spouses income. Other times it means less formal forms of childcare with the associated costs/risks implied. Some happily choose to be a full-time parent, and the money does not factor in.