5 ms·

Why is it so hard to find the contents of the actual tweets? That's the news story here right? Everything else is background. And why do I feel like if she was

by anm89 6y ago

Why is it so hard to find the contents of the actual tweets? That's the news story here right? Everything else is background. And why do I feel like if she was on the other political team the tweets would be the headline of every article?

jacobriis 6y ago
https://nypost.com/2021/03/08/teen-vogue-staffers-call-out-new-editor-in-chief-over-anti-asian-tweets/ https://nypost.com/2021/03/08/teen-vogue-staffers-call-out-n... These would be completely uncontroversial if they were written about European or white people: "Stupid white TA" "Like an old white woman" "Wake up with swollen white eyes" "Outdone by White #whatsnew" (And these clearly were not sufficiently controversial about Asian people coming from her until literally yesterday and probably won't be sufficiently controversial after like next weekend). Not to say this is unfair to her. "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword"
- wetmore 6y ago
  I mean they are stereotypes about a particular minority group. Of course they don't read the same when you replace them with phrases that are not stereotypes about the majority group.
  - jacobriis 6y ago
    Everything but the eye remark could apply to white people: "Stupid white TA," "Like an old white woman," and "Outdone by White #whatsnew." And the weeping and gnashing of teeth has nothing to do with making remarks about a "particular minority group." If she were studying abroad in China and said the same things about a "particular majority group," I doubt it would save her back in the US.
    - ipsocannibal 6y ago
      If she were studying abroad in China and posted this I doubt the Chinese would care. They don't share the same sensibilities about identity and race as the west. To project these sensibilities on to them is kind of racist in and of itself. Of course the point is moot because most Western social media is blocked in China anyway.
      - FooBarBizBazz 6y ago
        They don't truly care, but they will cynically pretend to "share the same sensibilities" when it seems useful. Chinese propaganda brands forced sterilization as "female empowerment", and denounces other things it doesn't like as "white supremacy". They see an ideological vulnerability and they try to exploit it.
        ipsocannibal 6y ago
        I don't disagree with your statement but I think we should be specific in describing this as a CCP tactic. The people and their government are not one and the same or always of a like mind.
        FooBarBizBazz 6y ago
        Absolutely, we should be clear about that, especially right now. Point well taken.
  - rsj_hn 6y ago
    It's a strange value system to think that expressing racism directed against a larger group of people is a less serious offense than expressing racism directed against a smaller group. I will never understand people who justify racism this way. If anything, it is a more severe offense to insult a larger group of people, but one can be idealistic and argue that insulting a race should not depend on the size of the race.
    - Apocryphon 6y ago
      Larger groups of people tend to be able to defend themselves more easily than smaller groups. There's a power differential in numbers. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's probably based in the same sort of logic that is behind guarding against the tyranny of the majority. It's the concept of punching up vs. punching down. Except in some cases like, Saddam Hussein's minority Sunni dictatorship over mostly-Shia Iraq, historically majority populations do better than minority ones. So they have less to lose when offended.
      - rsj_hn 6y ago
        "Punching up" is just an excuse for racism. See Matt Taibbi's review of some popular pro-racism books here: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-white-fragility https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-white-fragility I recommend watching the excellent BBC documentary World At War (1973) -- You can watch it on Daily Motion (c.f. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3p7c46 https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3p7c46). They had western reporters interview Nazi officials asking them to explain all the anti-jewish policies, and the answer is basically "We're punching up." They argued that jews were overrepresented and had too much power in German society; "we are merely righting the balance". In fact, if you talk to any racist, they will give you plenty of reasons explaining why the group of people they hate deserve to be hated and that he is merely "righting the balance". Everyone believes they are acting in the name of ultimate justice and that the hated group is deserving of the abuse. So I would recommend some self-reflection before making excuses for hate. None of these excuses are valid, they have all been tried before, and all these ideas such as "punching up" have been discredited since the 40s. Those sympathetic to Hitlerian race theory should not be sources of moral or ethical guidance.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  These tweets were controversial in 2019 (when she finally deleted them), and again in 2020, and again this year, when she got the Teen Vogue job. The difference is that the first two times, no one cared because most people don't care about racism against Asians in America. They only cared this time because 6 Asian women lost their lives this week in Atlanta. If that hadn't happened, she would probably still have her job after her token apology.
etblg 6y ago
It's in the article in the link under "Her job status became shaky days after Condé Nast named her to the position, when the offensive tweets she had posted as a teenager in 2011 resurfaced.", which links to https://www.instagram.com/p/CMIKWZegh4n/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CMIKWZegh4n/ The tweets are in the third image in the Instagram post, transcribed here: "Outdone by Asian #whatsnew" "now googling how to not wake up with swollen, asian eyes..." "give me a 2/10 on my chem problem, cross out all of my work and don't explain what I did wrong..thanks a lot stupid asian T.A. you're great." Not sure if there's more, but that seems to be the main basis of the reaction.
- ipsocannibal 6y ago
  What a set lessons to teach the readers at Teen Vogue. 1. Sincere apologies don't mean anything. 2. You will be judged by your actions as a child. 3. He who wins is the one who narcs the most on their peers. 4. It is better for you acquiesce to the will of an aggrieved mob than to stand for a principle. 5. Forgiveness is not as important as supporting the current moral panic. 6. Only the most pure and most aggrieved should lead.
  - etblg 6y ago
    The most important two takeaways of all: 1. don't forget to delete your tweets 2. if there's no proof it happened, deny
    - ipsocannibal 6y ago
      Roger Stone would be proud.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    1. People differ on whether her apology was sincere. 2. In 2011, she was an adult. Not a child. 4. I do not understand what "principle" you are defending here. The right to make racist tweets and ignore them? 5. Forgiveness is one thing. But why she lost the respect of nearly the entire staff of the magazine she was supposed to run. Also, she had literally no experience in fashion, and there are questions about the hiring process that led to her being hired over more qualified candidates with relevant experience. 6. Really, no. Just don't expect to be a boss if your history demonstrates you don't respect a large portion of your staff.

by anm89 6y ago

jacobriis 6y ago

https://nypost.com/2021/03/08/teen-vogue-staffers-call-out-new-editor-in-chief-over-anti-asian-tweets/ https://nypost.com/2021/03/08/teen-vogue-staffers-call-out-n... These would be completely uncontroversial if they were written about European or white people: "Stupid white TA" "Like an old white woman" "Wake up with swollen white eyes" "Outdone by White #whatsnew" (And these clearly were not sufficiently controversial about Asian people coming from her until literally yesterday and probably won't be sufficiently controversial after like next weekend). Not to say this is unfair to her. "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword"

wetmore 6y ago
I mean they are stereotypes about a particular minority group. Of course they don't read the same when you replace them with phrases that are not stereotypes about the majority group.
- jacobriis 6y ago
  Everything but the eye remark could apply to white people: "Stupid white TA," "Like an old white woman," and "Outdone by White #whatsnew." And the weeping and gnashing of teeth has nothing to do with making remarks about a "particular minority group." If she were studying abroad in China and said the same things about a "particular majority group," I doubt it would save her back in the US.
  - ipsocannibal 6y ago
    If she were studying abroad in China and posted this I doubt the Chinese would care. They don't share the same sensibilities about identity and race as the west. To project these sensibilities on to them is kind of racist in and of itself. Of course the point is moot because most Western social media is blocked in China anyway.
    - FooBarBizBazz 6y ago
      They don't truly care, but they will cynically pretend to "share the same sensibilities" when it seems useful. Chinese propaganda brands forced sterilization as "female empowerment", and denounces other things it doesn't like as "white supremacy". They see an ideological vulnerability and they try to exploit it.
      - ipsocannibal 6y ago
        I don't disagree with your statement but I think we should be specific in describing this as a CCP tactic. The people and their government are not one and the same or always of a like mind.
        FooBarBizBazz 6y ago
        Absolutely, we should be clear about that, especially right now. Point well taken.
- rsj_hn 6y ago
  It's a strange value system to think that expressing racism directed against a larger group of people is a less serious offense than expressing racism directed against a smaller group. I will never understand people who justify racism this way. If anything, it is a more severe offense to insult a larger group of people, but one can be idealistic and argue that insulting a race should not depend on the size of the race.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    Larger groups of people tend to be able to defend themselves more easily than smaller groups. There's a power differential in numbers. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's probably based in the same sort of logic that is behind guarding against the tyranny of the majority. It's the concept of punching up vs. punching down. Except in some cases like, Saddam Hussein's minority Sunni dictatorship over mostly-Shia Iraq, historically majority populations do better than minority ones. So they have less to lose when offended.
    - rsj_hn 6y ago
      "Punching up" is just an excuse for racism. See Matt Taibbi's review of some popular pro-racism books here: https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-white-fragility https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-white-fragility I recommend watching the excellent BBC documentary World At War (1973) -- You can watch it on Daily Motion (c.f. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3p7c46 https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3p7c46). They had western reporters interview Nazi officials asking them to explain all the anti-jewish policies, and the answer is basically "We're punching up." They argued that jews were overrepresented and had too much power in German society; "we are merely righting the balance". In fact, if you talk to any racist, they will give you plenty of reasons explaining why the group of people they hate deserve to be hated and that he is merely "righting the balance". Everyone believes they are acting in the name of ultimate justice and that the hated group is deserving of the abuse. So I would recommend some self-reflection before making excuses for hate. None of these excuses are valid, they have all been tried before, and all these ideas such as "punching up" have been discredited since the 40s. Those sympathetic to Hitlerian race theory should not be sources of moral or ethical guidance.
gamblor956 6y ago
These tweets were controversial in 2019 (when she finally deleted them), and again in 2020, and again this year, when she got the Teen Vogue job. The difference is that the first two times, no one cared because most people don't care about racism against Asians in America. They only cared this time because 6 Asian women lost their lives this week in Atlanta. If that hadn't happened, she would probably still have her job after her token apology.

etblg 6y ago

It's in the article in the link under "Her job status became shaky days after Condé Nast named her to the position, when the offensive tweets she had posted as a teenager in 2011 resurfaced.", which links to https://www.instagram.com/p/CMIKWZegh4n/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CMIKWZegh4n/ The tweets are in the third image in the Instagram post, transcribed here: "Outdone by Asian #whatsnew" "now googling how to not wake up with swollen, asian eyes..." "give me a 2/10 on my chem problem, cross out all of my work and don't explain what I did wrong..thanks a lot stupid asian T.A. you're great." Not sure if there's more, but that seems to be the main basis of the reaction.

ipsocannibal 6y ago
What a set lessons to teach the readers at Teen Vogue. 1. Sincere apologies don't mean anything. 2. You will be judged by your actions as a child. 3. He who wins is the one who narcs the most on their peers. 4. It is better for you acquiesce to the will of an aggrieved mob than to stand for a principle. 5. Forgiveness is not as important as supporting the current moral panic. 6. Only the most pure and most aggrieved should lead.
- etblg 6y ago
  The most important two takeaways of all: 1. don't forget to delete your tweets 2. if there's no proof it happened, deny
  - ipsocannibal 6y ago
    Roger Stone would be proud.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  1. People differ on whether her apology was sincere. 2. In 2011, she was an adult. Not a child. 4. I do not understand what "principle" you are defending here. The right to make racist tweets and ignore them? 5. Forgiveness is one thing. But why she lost the respect of nearly the entire staff of the magazine she was supposed to run. Also, she had literally no experience in fashion, and there are questions about the hiring process that led to her being hired over more qualified candidates with relevant experience. 6. Really, no. Just don't expect to be a boss if your history demonstrates you don't respect a large portion of your staff.