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I had a public mental health crisis and lost my job. Is my career over?
I have been trying to recover from a mental health crisis. This had been building for a while but it finally boiled over, at which point I did some very erratic and irrational things, in a very public way, at work. I was fired and since then, it's been very difficult to find another job.
I'm starting to sense that my reputation is irreversibly tarnished. While I seem to do well in interviews, I never get past the final interview with the CEO or top level exec. It's almost as if they have a blacklist of do-not-hires... Is this paranoia or ought I begin to look outside the startup scene for work?
- wikibob 6y agoWhat are you saying about it in interviews? This is one of those things that’s not written down anywhere, you have to “just know”. Never, ever, even vaguely allude to mental health issues. Say that you took some time off for family health reasons, and now that’s taken care of (implying and meaning that it no longer will distract you or take any time away from work). In the USA nobody will ask further, if they do they are likely risking violating employment law by opening themselves up to a discrimination claim. Also yes look outside the startup scene for sure. Have you seen the salaries on https://levels.fyi/2020 https://levels.fyi/2020 ?
- hambone_fake 6y agoI try to play it off as a sabbatical.
- wikibob 6y agoHow many companies did you get to a final interview with?
- hambone_fake 6y ago3 so far
- wikibob 6y agoHave you worked on leetcode? If you can do mediums in about half hour I would try some big tech companies.
- domlebo70 6y agoWhat do you "try to". Just lie. Just say you took an extended holiday. People get fired all the time, and get new jobs.
- hntrader 6y agoI know a competent dev with severe mental health issues (bipolar, manic depression, ASD and narcissism all combined and untreated) who has been fired over 10 times (no exaggeration) but keeps getting jobs rather easily with a high salary. Getting fired once because of this is not the end of the world if you're sufficiently competent. I don't have any practical advice but hopefully that keeps your spirits up a bit.
- PhillyG 6y agoOut of interest, how did they manage to keep the determination to apply, after the 5th or 6th setback? When I was fresh out of university, I had a run of jobs where my skills where over-estimated by small local development firms who'd hadn't hired many/any grads before. After 5 setbacks in a row, I couldn't face applying to tech roles. The only way I could bring myself to carry on towards my career dream at that low point, was self-teaching - working on my own projects and focusing in on the techs I was best at. Then after a bit, doing basic Web design projects for small businesses and gradually working up from there - but still to this day (~6 years on from that run) only projects where I'm in complete control of the tech stack and coding practices. It took a tonne of effort (and some counselling) to get my self-confidence back
- hntrader 6y agoThis person is highly idiosyncratic/unpredictable and has multi-day bouts of mania with extreme energy, before flipping into a depressed/alcoholic state where he's a no-show for a week. Probably he applied during a manic phase. Needless to say he has an IQ of probably 140+ so he can impress people especially during the interview stage with his sheer intelligence. He can also build things fast. Everyone who works with him acknowledges the skill but finds him too destructive personality wise and it usually results in termination within 6 months. He's switched to remote consulting recently which is a better personality fit.
- PhillyG 6y agoAhh okay. Thanks for the extra detail
- bluefirebrand 6y agoThe idea of reputation is a bit overblown imo. If your reputation was preceding you, you would likely not get interviews at all. Since you are, that's a good sign you're not blacklisted or something. Don't worry that bad news about you is coming out during their reference checking or something. professional reference checks are usually along the lines of "Have you heard of this person?" "yes they worked here from x to y" "Great thanks" I guess my question for you is, do you have any real concrete reason to believe that these companies know who you are before your resume reaches them? Or would find out about your breakdown during the interview process? Does a really embarassing youtube video of your breakdown appear when they google your name or something? If not, I'd say you're just having a run of bad luck. It happens. Take courage in the fact that you are making it all the way to the final stages of their interview process and keep trying. You'll get there. Also I hope you're in a healthier place since your breakdown. Mental health issues suck. Take care of yourself.
- hambone_fake 6y agoNo, I don't think there's any public records of my bad behavior. I guess I imagine that all the high-level execs get together in hot tubs, smoking cigars and trading blacklists.
- bluefirebrand 6y agoHaha. I'm not saying it never happens, but I bet when they get together in hot tubs and smoke cigars together they have something better to talk about, like banging supermodels and owning private jets. ;)
- giantg2 6y agoI wouldn't be surprised if they are calling your former company (or someone they know there) asking for details.
- 5tefan 6y agoI don't believe in blacklisting. Something profound happened in your life and you're still putting back all the little pieces into a new and coherent view of your world. They could sense that without actually knowing. You're looking for a similar position you had? Would you expose yourself to more of the same thing that got to you in the first place?
- sjg007 6y agoNo your career is not over and I don't think you are blacklisted. But make sure you are taking care of yourself and that you have support from a doctor/therapist/family and whatever you need. A therapist and time will help you gain perspective and re-frame the experience. Taking care of yourself is priority #1. Next if you want to stay in the startup world, you could always go work for a startup in the mental health space. They'd probably be more reasonable. But don't discount a bigger company which would offer you some space where you can focus on yourself for a bit and get great health benefits. There will always be another startup opportunity out there. I'd also go for work for places where you have friends. Also your mental health crisis probably counts as a disability so you may even have a claim against your previous employer. If you are in the US you can get some advice from your local EEOC office. See for example: https://screening.mhanational.org/content/can-i-be-fired-my-mental-illness/ https://screening.mhanational.org/content/can-i-be-fired-my-...
- keyanp 6y agoI seriously doubt you are "blacklisted" or anything similar. You've only failed 3 final round interviews, which doesn't strike me as an uncommonly large number. Can you elaborate on whether it is technical or behavioral rounds that you seem to be failing? It might simply be a personality thing with the few places you've talked to. If you are interested, I am willing to give you a short mock interview and provide you with objective and honest feedback to see if we can figure out what is going on. Feel free to get in touch, contact info is my user profile.
- buffington 6y agoI've probably interviewed more than 1000 people in the tech industry over the course of 25 years. Some of those interviews were conducted while I was a CTO, a cofounder, or high level exec within a company. Here are some things that might be comforting for you to hear. They're from my perspective only, so bear that in mind: I've never seen a "don't hire this person" list, or anything remotely equivalent. The only way I'd know about a candidate's reputation is if I either knew that candidate personally, or through a friend already, or if you told me you had one. I've never once asked someone about mental health, just like I haven't asked about age, gender, religion, if they have kids, if they're married, who they want to love, where they grew up, etc. Knowing about someone's mental health isn't relevant to the interview process - at least not for the roles I hire. Even if I knew, I wouldn't disqualify someone due to mental health challenges. Everyone experiences those challenges, either directly or indirectly. It's part of being a human being living in a community of other human beings. It's also illegal in a lot of states/countries to disqualify a candidate because of previous, current, or predicted mental health struggles. Reading your answers to other comments, here's what I'd recommend: You don't need to qualify or describe why you have any gaps in employment. If someone asks, it's because they're wanting to determine if you have gaps because you weren't, in their minds, hirable. It's faulty logic, but it's likely why they ask. If asked you can simply say: "I took a break." If prodded for more details as to why, you can stop the prodding with "I wanted to focus on my health." Any interviewer should know that's a dead end. They cannot dig deeper. They have to move on. If they don't and decide to pry still you can simply say "look, I'm aware that you feel it's important, but it's not, and it might also be illegal to ask. Can we move on?" If that doesn't give them the hint, you don't want to work there.
- 2rsf 6y ago> I've never seen a "don't hire this person" list, or anything remotely equivalent. Same here, TBH who would bother publicizing names of regular engineers? it's probably illegal, immoral and can't be kept secret for long. > If asked you can simply say: "I took a break." Or be semi-honest and say you took a break due to stress or other mental issue, most interviewers won't ask or care more and those who do- you don't want to work for.
- ThePhysicist 6y agoIf you were on a blacklist I think companies wouldn't "waste" time interviewing you over multiple rounds, they would reject your application straight away. So keep your chin up! But if you're recovering from a mental health crisis maybe it's better to stay away from startups as they tend to be high-stress work environments, I'd try to find a more steady job at a larger company or organization with a slower pace.
- ipsocannibal 6y agoAs long as you didn't say anything in the vain of a politically incorrect '-ism' then no you are most likely just dealing with the general crappiness of hiring in the start-up scene. Otherwise, yes you have been blacklisted Alexi Mccammond style.
- WalterGR 6y agoIt’s against site guidelines to turn everything into a battle in the culture wars. The guidelines are linked at the bottom of most pages on this site.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- bloqs 6y agoDont forget protragonist syndrome will betray you. People always think people pay more attention to them than they do
- kazinator 6y agoIf you're having interviews with CEOs and top-level execs, you're not on any blacklist.
- ElectricMind 6y agoCould you please write detailed blog post about >>"I did some very erratic and irrational things, in a very public way" << and provide link in this post. At least I need more information to get the context right.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- sloaken 6y agoYou probably have a 'tell' when asked about your previous job that makes people uncomfortable. I recommend 2 things: 1) practice interviews - to find what you are doing 2) volunteer job (must be relevant to your career) - put distance between your last job and the prospective new one. That way the questions can for volunteer work and not the one where you had issues.
- poletopole 6y agoWelcome to the club :)
- sethammons 6y agoCould be final reference checks. But most likely it is just the numbers game. Keep applying.
- alexander-litty 6y agoI get the impression that the job market is very saturated right now. I'm on a private slack group for a tech recruiter company; it's well-discussed that the platform is seeing less hires due to the pandemic.