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Unfortunately I think there is a degree of consensus that that is how it works, and this is used as evidence for the lack of free will.

mehphp 6y ago
I'm not sure how free will would work, even in theory. If the universe is completely deterministic then of course there isn't freedom of will in that. If it is random, then that still wouldn't be freedom because it would still be out of our control. I can't think of a way that it could work without invoking the metaphysical.
- dr_dshiv 6y ago
  Well, if you take away the "I", so that it isn't the will of a singular being, but rather the free will of the elements of reality, manifesting itself— it makes sense— it isn't random, because it has coherence and it isn't deterministic—it is emergent. It isn't "me" that wills some reality into existence. It is the substance of the universe willing reality into existence. But even if you take the "I" away, it doesn't take away the utility or reality of the will. "Free will" emerges, like "wetness" emerges as a quality of water.
- someguyorother 6y ago
  It'd have to be like the libertarian incompatibilists envision it: that free will gives everybody a capacity to, to some degree, be a first cause. From https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/incompatibilism-arguments/#TwoReasForThinFreeWillIncoDete https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/incompatibilism-arguments... "Free will…is the power of agents to be the ultimate creators or originators and sustainers of their own ends or purposes…when we trace the causal or explanatory chains of action back to their sources in the purposes of free agents, these causal chains must come to an end or terminate in the willings (choices, decisions, or efforts) of the agents, which cause or bring about their purposes. (Kane 1996: 4)" That might be metaphysical, but I don't see any other way free will could operate - that is, if it exists.

mehphp 6y ago

I'm not sure how free will would work, even in theory. If the universe is completely deterministic then of course there isn't freedom of will in that. If it is random, then that still wouldn't be freedom because it would still be out of our control. I can't think of a way that it could work without invoking the metaphysical.

dr_dshiv 6y ago
Well, if you take away the "I", so that it isn't the will of a singular being, but rather the free will of the elements of reality, manifesting itself— it makes sense— it isn't random, because it has coherence and it isn't deterministic—it is emergent. It isn't "me" that wills some reality into existence. It is the substance of the universe willing reality into existence. But even if you take the "I" away, it doesn't take away the utility or reality of the will. "Free will" emerges, like "wetness" emerges as a quality of water.
someguyorother 6y ago
It'd have to be like the libertarian incompatibilists envision it: that free will gives everybody a capacity to, to some degree, be a first cause. From https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/incompatibilism-arguments/#TwoReasForThinFreeWillIncoDete https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/incompatibilism-arguments... "Free will…is the power of agents to be the ultimate creators or originators and sustainers of their own ends or purposes…when we trace the causal or explanatory chains of action back to their sources in the purposes of free agents, these causal chains must come to an end or terminate in the willings (choices, decisions, or efforts) of the agents, which cause or bring about their purposes. (Kane 1996: 4)" That might be metaphysical, but I don't see any other way free will could operate - that is, if it exists.