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I am a non-materialist and I think consciousness is not a thing. So there's that position too. What do humans, mammals and earthworms have in common that AI or

I am a non-materialist and I think consciousness is not a thing. So there's that position too. What do humans, mammals and earthworms have in common that AI or robots do not (as yet?) I would not say it is consciousness (because my position is there is really no such thing) but rather they have in common the fact that they are alive and subject to the Darwinian replication program and guided by common mental processes like, thought, emotion, memory, proprioception, sensation. By non-materialist I mean I do not see matter as distinct from information. I believe the only thing that exists is information. What is information? It is structure and meaning and pattern and potential. Information is entwined with entropy.

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nynx 6y ago
How does believing that all things are information differ from believing all things are matter? Those sound just like two sides of the same coin to me.
- morpheos137 6y ago
  Materialists see information as deriving (resulting) from a spatial - temporal - state distribution of matter or energy. Informational people see information as giving rise (causing) to matter and energy. I subscribe to the Mathematical Universe Hypothesis more or less and am sympathetic to Cyclic Conformal Cosmology. Thus cause and effect are reversed.
  - anthk 6y ago
    I always was more impressed on why information on the atoms (how interact between themselves) is not as researched as the matter itself, is truly fascinating.
    - forgotmypw17 6y ago
      We think we have it so hard with our 9-5 jobs and 2 weeks vacation. Meanwhile, atoms have been working without as much as a fucking smoke break for literally billions of years! >_<
mehphp 6y ago
Can you expand on consciousness not being a thing? You mean it doesn't exist at all or it isn't a physical thing?
- morpheos137 6y ago
  I don't believe consciousness exists in a meaningful way in the real world. It certainly exists as a word in a dictionary and as something for philosophical types to have woo debates over. I think the word is vague term that signifies different somewhat independent things that living organisms have to a greater or lesser extent (memory, emotion, thought, embodiment, etc). I believe attempting to have a scientific debate about consciousness is kind of like asking how many angels could dance on the head of pin.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    I find that a very strange statement for a supposedly conscious being to make. Consciousness does absolutely objectively exist, or at least I can say it does for me. That its existence is not objectively measurable doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means that the philosophy of empiricism is not complete.
    - morpheos137 6y ago
      >I find that a very strange statement for a supposedly conscious being to make. I don't claim to be conscious. I am alive and awake and thinking and sensing, etc. >Consciousness does absolutely objectively exist, or at least I can say it does for me. This sentence appears to confuse subjective experience with objective reality. >That its existence is not objectively measurable doesn't mean it doesn't exist If we can think of something that is not objectively measurable what suggests that it exists objectively as opposed to it being a subjective opinion? Can you define consciousness without invoking subjective conscious experience? You agree there is not evidence of objective existence and yet you say it objectively exists because you subjectively feel it does. Is this not self-contradictory?
      - 6y ago

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nynx 6y ago

How does believing that all things are information differ from believing all things are matter? Those sound just like two sides of the same coin to me.

morpheos137 6y ago
Materialists see information as deriving (resulting) from a spatial - temporal - state distribution of matter or energy. Informational people see information as giving rise (causing) to matter and energy. I subscribe to the Mathematical Universe Hypothesis more or less and am sympathetic to Cyclic Conformal Cosmology. Thus cause and effect are reversed.
- anthk 6y ago
  I always was more impressed on why information on the atoms (how interact between themselves) is not as researched as the matter itself, is truly fascinating.
  - forgotmypw17 6y ago
    We think we have it so hard with our 9-5 jobs and 2 weeks vacation. Meanwhile, atoms have been working without as much as a fucking smoke break for literally billions of years! >_<

mehphp 6y ago

Can you expand on consciousness not being a thing? You mean it doesn't exist at all or it isn't a physical thing?

morpheos137 6y ago
I don't believe consciousness exists in a meaningful way in the real world. It certainly exists as a word in a dictionary and as something for philosophical types to have woo debates over. I think the word is vague term that signifies different somewhat independent things that living organisms have to a greater or lesser extent (memory, emotion, thought, embodiment, etc). I believe attempting to have a scientific debate about consciousness is kind of like asking how many angels could dance on the head of pin.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  I find that a very strange statement for a supposedly conscious being to make. Consciousness does absolutely objectively exist, or at least I can say it does for me. That its existence is not objectively measurable doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means that the philosophy of empiricism is not complete.
  - morpheos137 6y ago
    >I find that a very strange statement for a supposedly conscious being to make. I don't claim to be conscious. I am alive and awake and thinking and sensing, etc. >Consciousness does absolutely objectively exist, or at least I can say it does for me. This sentence appears to confuse subjective experience with objective reality. >That its existence is not objectively measurable doesn't mean it doesn't exist If we can think of something that is not objectively measurable what suggests that it exists objectively as opposed to it being a subjective opinion? Can you define consciousness without invoking subjective conscious experience? You agree there is not evidence of objective existence and yet you say it objectively exists because you subjectively feel it does. Is this not self-contradictory?
    - 6y ago