3 ms·

If Tesla Autopilot is going to keep putting lives at risk then they really shouldn’t be allowed to keep selling it. I’m a bit baffled as to suggestions otherwis

If Tesla Autopilot is going to keep putting lives at risk then they really shouldn’t be allowed to keep selling it. I’m a bit baffled as to suggestions otherwise. If some lettuce gets contaminated with E. coli, we don’t say “oh well, caveat emptor, maybe start cooking your lettuce instead of eating it in salads,” we recall the lettuce.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
We don't stop selling lettuce because you can get E. coli. To your point, we recall what we think we can, and billions of lbs continue to get sold. We have accepted that some people will get sick or die (even when recalled) because we value the availability and other benefits of lettuce over outright banning it. There is always risk. You can de-risk, but it's usually impossible de-risk entirely in regards to life safety. You are at risk of death on the road with human drivers, and that risk is well quantified (NHSTA, NTSB, private auto insurance industry). Arguably, there is data to demonstrate that safety systems and lane keeping are safer when edge cases don't occur [1]. The question is: are those edge cases acceptable if the risk is reduced overall? Planes crash, but people still fly commercial. Again, we don't ban commercial air travel, but regulators and industry work together to ensure there are robust systems in place to remove as much risk as possible. Should we ban the production and sale of lettuce too because a few people get sick or die [2]? Because it sure does sound like we say, “oh well, caveat emptor, maybe start cooking your lettuce instead of eating it in salads." (The same number of people have died from lettuce as from Tesla's Autopilot in roughly the same window of time [a decade, lumping together AP1, AP2, AP2.5, and FSD beta]) [1] https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport [2] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/venessawong/the-decade-lettuce-tried-to-kill-us https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/venessawong/the-decade-... ("2010s total: More than 1,010 people sickened, including 6 deaths.")
- mike_d 6y ago
  We get it, you own a Tesla and/or stock. The constant mental gymnastics from otherwise smart people on HN to try and defend them are quite tiring.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    I own no Tesla securities. Can't smart people simply argue that progress has a cost and what realistic risk expectations are? Being pragmatic doesn’t make one a shill.

toomuchtodo 6y ago

We don't stop selling lettuce because you can get E. coli. To your point, we recall what we think we can, and billions of lbs continue to get sold. We have accepted that some people will get sick or die (even when recalled) because we value the availability and other benefits of lettuce over outright banning it. There is always risk. You can de-risk, but it's usually impossible de-risk entirely in regards to life safety. You are at risk of death on the road with human drivers, and that risk is well quantified (NHSTA, NTSB, private auto insurance industry). Arguably, there is data to demonstrate that safety systems and lane keeping are safer when edge cases don't occur [1]. The question is: are those edge cases acceptable if the risk is reduced overall? Planes crash, but people still fly commercial. Again, we don't ban commercial air travel, but regulators and industry work together to ensure there are robust systems in place to remove as much risk as possible. Should we ban the production and sale of lettuce too because a few people get sick or die [2]? Because it sure does sound like we say, “oh well, caveat emptor, maybe start cooking your lettuce instead of eating it in salads." (The same number of people have died from lettuce as from Tesla's Autopilot in roughly the same window of time [a decade, lumping together AP1, AP2, AP2.5, and FSD beta]) [1] https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport [2] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/venessawong/the-decade-lettuce-tried-to-kill-us https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/venessawong/the-decade-... ("2010s total: More than 1,010 people sickened, including 6 deaths.")

mike_d 6y ago
We get it, you own a Tesla and/or stock. The constant mental gymnastics from otherwise smart people on HN to try and defend them are quite tiring.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  I own no Tesla securities. Can't smart people simply argue that progress has a cost and what realistic risk expectations are? Being pragmatic doesn’t make one a shill.