5 ms·

Yeah, we aren't going to rearchitect the highway system and teach every driver the new rules so Tesla can move a couple more units with it's false autonomous dr

Yeah, we aren't going to rearchitect the highway system and teach every driver the new rules so Tesla can move a couple more units with it's false autonomous driving promises. They simply need to stop hitting parked cars with bright lights flashing.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
Tesla is going to keep selling Autopilot, and average drivers will continue to drive poorly. I suggest a low cost change to emergency procedures that improves outcomes regardless of who has command of the vehicle. Autonomous driving will continue to improve, human drivers will not.
- willcipriano 6y ago
  > Tesla is going to keep selling Autopilot Not if they keep hitting parked cars they won't, the law will catch up to them.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    Let's be realistic, the law isn't going to catch up. Uber killed a person with a safety driver not paying attention and all safety systems turned off. Did the law change? It did not. How many deaths in total have occurred related to Autopilot use? 6 [1]. About 100 people per day die in auto-related incidents. If you want to take it to the extreme, Tesla has killed far fewer people than Boeing's 737MAX autopilot (which has killed 346 people in a six month span). [1] https://www.tesladeaths.com/ https://www.tesladeaths.com/
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      >>> Tesla is going to keep selling Autopilot >> Not if they keep hitting parked cars they won't, the law will catch up to them. > Uber killed a person with a safety driver not paying attention and all safety systems turned off. Did the law change? It did not. Hmmm. You seem to have glossed over the verb aspect. How many people did Uber kill like that?
- intuitionist 6y ago
  If Tesla Autopilot is going to keep putting lives at risk then they really shouldn’t be allowed to keep selling it. I’m a bit baffled as to suggestions otherwise. If some lettuce gets contaminated with E. coli, we don’t say “oh well, caveat emptor, maybe start cooking your lettuce instead of eating it in salads,” we recall the lettuce.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    We don't stop selling lettuce because you can get E. coli. To your point, we recall what we think we can, and billions of lbs continue to get sold. We have accepted that some people will get sick or die (even when recalled) because we value the availability and other benefits of lettuce over outright banning it. There is always risk. You can de-risk, but it's usually impossible de-risk entirely in regards to life safety. You are at risk of death on the road with human drivers, and that risk is well quantified (NHSTA, NTSB, private auto insurance industry). Arguably, there is data to demonstrate that safety systems and lane keeping are safer when edge cases don't occur [1]. The question is: are those edge cases acceptable if the risk is reduced overall? Planes crash, but people still fly commercial. Again, we don't ban commercial air travel, but regulators and industry work together to ensure there are robust systems in place to remove as much risk as possible. Should we ban the production and sale of lettuce too because a few people get sick or die [2]? Because it sure does sound like we say, “oh well, caveat emptor, maybe start cooking your lettuce instead of eating it in salads." (The same number of people have died from lettuce as from Tesla's Autopilot in roughly the same window of time [a decade, lumping together AP1, AP2, AP2.5, and FSD beta]) [1] https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport [2] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/venessawong/the-decade-lettuce-tried-to-kill-us https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/venessawong/the-decade-... ("2010s total: More than 1,010 people sickened, including 6 deaths.")
    - mike_d 6y ago
      We get it, you own a Tesla and/or stock. The constant mental gymnastics from otherwise smart people on HN to try and defend them are quite tiring.

toomuchtodo 6y ago

Tesla is going to keep selling Autopilot, and average drivers will continue to drive poorly. I suggest a low cost change to emergency procedures that improves outcomes regardless of who has command of the vehicle. Autonomous driving will continue to improve, human drivers will not.

willcipriano 6y ago
> Tesla is going to keep selling Autopilot Not if they keep hitting parked cars they won't, the law will catch up to them.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Let's be realistic, the law isn't going to catch up. Uber killed a person with a safety driver not paying attention and all safety systems turned off. Did the law change? It did not. How many deaths in total have occurred related to Autopilot use? 6 [1]. About 100 people per day die in auto-related incidents. If you want to take it to the extreme, Tesla has killed far fewer people than Boeing's 737MAX autopilot (which has killed 346 people in a six month span). [1] https://www.tesladeaths.com/ https://www.tesladeaths.com/
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    >>> Tesla is going to keep selling Autopilot >> Not if they keep hitting parked cars they won't, the law will catch up to them. > Uber killed a person with a safety driver not paying attention and all safety systems turned off. Did the law change? It did not. Hmmm. You seem to have glossed over the verb aspect. How many people did Uber kill like that?
intuitionist 6y ago
If Tesla Autopilot is going to keep putting lives at risk then they really shouldn’t be allowed to keep selling it. I’m a bit baffled as to suggestions otherwise. If some lettuce gets contaminated with E. coli, we don’t say “oh well, caveat emptor, maybe start cooking your lettuce instead of eating it in salads,” we recall the lettuce.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  We don't stop selling lettuce because you can get E. coli. To your point, we recall what we think we can, and billions of lbs continue to get sold. We have accepted that some people will get sick or die (even when recalled) because we value the availability and other benefits of lettuce over outright banning it. There is always risk. You can de-risk, but it's usually impossible de-risk entirely in regards to life safety. You are at risk of death on the road with human drivers, and that risk is well quantified (NHSTA, NTSB, private auto insurance industry). Arguably, there is data to demonstrate that safety systems and lane keeping are safer when edge cases don't occur [1]. The question is: are those edge cases acceptable if the risk is reduced overall? Planes crash, but people still fly commercial. Again, we don't ban commercial air travel, but regulators and industry work together to ensure there are robust systems in place to remove as much risk as possible. Should we ban the production and sale of lettuce too because a few people get sick or die [2]? Because it sure does sound like we say, “oh well, caveat emptor, maybe start cooking your lettuce instead of eating it in salads." (The same number of people have died from lettuce as from Tesla's Autopilot in roughly the same window of time [a decade, lumping together AP1, AP2, AP2.5, and FSD beta]) [1] https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport [2] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/venessawong/the-decade-lettuce-tried-to-kill-us https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/venessawong/the-decade-... ("2010s total: More than 1,010 people sickened, including 6 deaths.")
  - mike_d 6y ago
    We get it, you own a Tesla and/or stock. The constant mental gymnastics from otherwise smart people on HN to try and defend them are quite tiring.