6 ms·

> driving with a suspended license Well, one can argue that someone willing to drive after his license is revoked is also willing to lie about the Tesla crashi

> driving with a suspended license Well, one can argue that someone willing to drive after his license is revoked is also willing to lie about the Tesla crashing itself. It seems super reasonable to wait for Tesla side instead of rushing to conclusions.

Imnimo 6y ago
If you've got a suspended license, better to let the car drive itself! /s
- ronsor 6y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if the driver unironically believed that.
oblio 6y ago
I imagine it's even more reasonable to wait for the conclusion of a legal authority, not that of a directly involved party.
- beckman466 6y ago
  Capitalist firms be starting countries these days. https://apnews.com/article/legislature-legislation-local-governments-nevada-economy-2fa79128a7bf41073c1e9102e8a0e5f0 https://apnews.com/article/legislature-legislation-local-gov...
  - oblio 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company Highlights: > The company, for nearly 200 years of its existence (1602–1800), had effectively transformed itself from a corporate entity into a state or an empire in its own right. > With its pioneering institutional innovations and powerful roles in world history, the company is considered by many to be the first major, first modern, first global, most valuable, and most influential corporation ever seen.
    - beckman466 6y ago
      Yes it's truly horrific. William Dalrymple has a tome of a book about the English East India Company, which I hope to check out someday soon: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/sep/11/anarchy-relentless-rise-east-india-company-william-darymple-review https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/sep/11/anarchy-relent... Jason Hickel is also an invaluable source: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-st...
xiphias2 6y ago
I can imagine that autopilot was turned on, but the question in that case is what was the man doing when the car crashed.
paxys 6y ago
From all the Tesla autopilot videos posted online I have seen so far, it isn't hard to believe. The system needs constant driver intervention, even for simple everyday scenarios. Calling it anything more than driver assist is borderline criminal.
- IncRnd 6y ago
  Autopilot = First to market Pump words for Driver Assist. Your right, there are already laws that can criminalize that sort of marketing claim.
thebruce87m 6y ago
I wouldn’t necessarily believe the Tesla side of the story either - wait for the independent report.
TheEnder8 6y ago
Given that Tesla has no PR department, you might be waiting a while for that
- DSingularity 6y ago
  Was it a PR move to do spans the PR department? “Tesla, where every dollar goes towards making your car better!”. Or did they seriously disband their PR department!?
dgrin91 6y ago
The article states the police said it was on autopilot - > The Tesla's Autopilot driver-assist system was engaged when it struck the police car, a blue Dodge Charger with its emergency lights activated, police officials tweeted. Or did I misunderstand and are you saying you don't believe the police report here?
- Udik 6y ago
  Can the police officers know for sure before an investigation?
- SirFatty 6y ago
  I wonder how they would know that?
lhorie 6y ago
> lie about the Tesla crashing itself Isn't one still fully responsible even when the car is in autopilot mode? I feel like blaming a Tesla for "crashing itself in autopilot" is a bit like saying a Mercedes "crashed itself" because you put it on cruise control / lane assist / collision detection mode so you could text from the driver seat or some such.
- totalZero 6y ago
  I'd say both Tesla and the driver would potentially be responsible. Tesla for the pattern and the driver for the instance. Same as any other situation. If one 737 Max crashes, Boeing may blame the pilots. But if another crashes, Boeing has to take some responsibility.
  - lhorie 6y ago
    I mean, I could totally see some sort of unrelated class action suit against Tesla on the grounds of false advertising, but I'm skeptical Tesla is going to end up as a co-defendant if the charge is one random dude driving recklessly.
    - totalZero 6y ago
      Holding Tesla responsible could happen in a number of ways, including via the regulators. NHTSA could even force them to change or deactivate the autopilot system. I'm not talking about a lawsuit. I'm talking about interruptions to their business. That's why I used the Boeing analogy. https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/understanding_nhtsas_current_regulatory_tools-tag.pdf https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/un...
stefan_ 6y ago
That ignores that somehow a very high % of drivers in the US are on a plain suspended license, or none at all, and nobody particularly cares that they are or if they crash and injure. One block is immigrants with unclear status who don't bother to get one in the first place, another is the usual delinquents that don't bother to pay fines or tickets. Having straight up lost your license in the US from incompetence are a vanishing number, because well that is practically impossible in the US. (I don't believe this group has a particular tendency to want to hit stationary objects, though.)
- uomo 6y ago
  If anyone else was wondering what percent of drivers in the US have a suspended license it's 2.59% [1]. Which honestly surprised me because it seems lower than I was expecting. Fun fact: North Dakota has the most drivers with a suspended license at 7.75% and is followed by Ohio at 5.62% [2]. [1]: https://insurify.com/insights/cities-with-the-most-suspended-drivers-licenses/ https://insurify.com/insights/cities-with-the-most-suspended... [2]: https://insurify.com/insights/the-10-states-with-the-most-suspended-revoked-licenses/ https://insurify.com/insights/the-10-states-with-the-most-su...
mike_d 6y ago
Crash investigators don't need to take the drivers word for it. They have devices that plug into what is left of the ODB2 port or directly into the cars ECU and download the contents of the Event Data Recorder, which gives a usually 30 second snapshot of all the data leading up to an airbag deployment.
mdoms 6y ago
The problem with waiting for Tesla's side of the story is that not only do they have a very strong vested interest in one outcome, they have also been caught lying about this stuff before.
pengaru 6y ago
My license has been suspended for not renewing the registration/smogging disassembled vehicles used as parts donors in project cars. I had assumed the reasonable thing would occur; the plates would expire and become suspended, a non-issue for a chassis sawz-alled to bits and sold for scrap. Nope! Not in IL. While receiving a benign speeding ticket on a road-trip out of state, I learned my ostensibly valid DL was suspended, and what it feels like to be handcuffed, arrested, and processed at the station. Why had IL suspended my DL? Well, I was forced to stay out-of-state and appear in court that week, eventually learning why IL had suspended my license to defend my innocence: the disassembled vehicle hadn't passed a smog test that year. They suspended the vehicle owner's DL for this nonsense. The judge in the state I had to defend myself in didn't even know what a smog test was. It was a clown show across the board, with my pocket footing the bill at every turn. A suspended license is not a reliable indicator of anything other than bureaucratic fundraising by the state.
- josefx 6y ago
  > I had assumed the reasonable thing would occur; the plates would expire and become suspended, a non-issue for a chassis sawz-alled to bits and sold for scrap. That expectation seems to be at odds with everything I as a non car owner remember from my parents selling their cars. As far as I can find there often is no explicit requirement to deregister the car/plates, but with the exact problem you ran into: Even if everything ended up suspended the registration would still point at you, with a very good chance that you end up liable. > hadn't passed a smog test that year. Among the top reasons for people driving around with an expired registration apparently. So the police found exactly what it expected when it saw that expired registration with your name on it.
  - pengaru 6y ago
    > So the police found exactly what it expected when it saw that expired registration with your name on it. What are you talking about? I wasn't driving a vehicle with expired tags, the vehicle in my name triggering the DL suspension had been DIY scrapped and the plates destroyed. I was pulled over for speeding, driving a friend's car on a road trip during my turn at the wheel. Reading comprehension fail...
drcongo 6y ago
I only come in to these threads to watch the Musk fanboys and Tesla apologists contort themselves into knots. This reply is a new high bar though, I love it, well done.

Imnimo 6y ago

If you've got a suspended license, better to let the car drive itself! /s

ronsor 6y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if the driver unironically believed that.

oblio 6y ago

I imagine it's even more reasonable to wait for the conclusion of a legal authority, not that of a directly involved party.

beckman466 6y ago
Capitalist firms be starting countries these days. https://apnews.com/article/legislature-legislation-local-governments-nevada-economy-2fa79128a7bf41073c1e9102e8a0e5f0 https://apnews.com/article/legislature-legislation-local-gov...
- oblio 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company Highlights: > The company, for nearly 200 years of its existence (1602–1800), had effectively transformed itself from a corporate entity into a state or an empire in its own right. > With its pioneering institutional innovations and powerful roles in world history, the company is considered by many to be the first major, first modern, first global, most valuable, and most influential corporation ever seen.
  - beckman466 6y ago
    Yes it's truly horrific. William Dalrymple has a tome of a book about the English East India Company, which I hope to check out someday soon: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/sep/11/anarchy-relentless-rise-east-india-company-william-darymple-review https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/sep/11/anarchy-relent... Jason Hickel is also an invaluable source: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-st...

xiphias2 6y ago

I can imagine that autopilot was turned on, but the question in that case is what was the man doing when the car crashed.

paxys 6y ago

From all the Tesla autopilot videos posted online I have seen so far, it isn't hard to believe. The system needs constant driver intervention, even for simple everyday scenarios. Calling it anything more than driver assist is borderline criminal.

IncRnd 6y ago
Autopilot = First to market Pump words for Driver Assist. Your right, there are already laws that can criminalize that sort of marketing claim.

thebruce87m 6y ago

I wouldn’t necessarily believe the Tesla side of the story either - wait for the independent report.

TheEnder8 6y ago

Given that Tesla has no PR department, you might be waiting a while for that

DSingularity 6y ago
Was it a PR move to do spans the PR department? “Tesla, where every dollar goes towards making your car better!”. Or did they seriously disband their PR department!?

dgrin91 6y ago

The article states the police said it was on autopilot - > The Tesla's Autopilot driver-assist system was engaged when it struck the police car, a blue Dodge Charger with its emergency lights activated, police officials tweeted. Or did I misunderstand and are you saying you don't believe the police report here?

Udik 6y ago
Can the police officers know for sure before an investigation?
SirFatty 6y ago
I wonder how they would know that?

lhorie 6y ago

> lie about the Tesla crashing itself Isn't one still fully responsible even when the car is in autopilot mode? I feel like blaming a Tesla for "crashing itself in autopilot" is a bit like saying a Mercedes "crashed itself" because you put it on cruise control / lane assist / collision detection mode so you could text from the driver seat or some such.

totalZero 6y ago
I'd say both Tesla and the driver would potentially be responsible. Tesla for the pattern and the driver for the instance. Same as any other situation. If one 737 Max crashes, Boeing may blame the pilots. But if another crashes, Boeing has to take some responsibility.
- lhorie 6y ago
  I mean, I could totally see some sort of unrelated class action suit against Tesla on the grounds of false advertising, but I'm skeptical Tesla is going to end up as a co-defendant if the charge is one random dude driving recklessly.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    Holding Tesla responsible could happen in a number of ways, including via the regulators. NHTSA could even force them to change or deactivate the autopilot system. I'm not talking about a lawsuit. I'm talking about interruptions to their business. That's why I used the Boeing analogy. https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/understanding_nhtsas_current_regulatory_tools-tag.pdf https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/un...

stefan_ 6y ago

That ignores that somehow a very high % of drivers in the US are on a plain suspended license, or none at all, and nobody particularly cares that they are or if they crash and injure. One block is immigrants with unclear status who don't bother to get one in the first place, another is the usual delinquents that don't bother to pay fines or tickets. Having straight up lost your license in the US from incompetence are a vanishing number, because well that is practically impossible in the US. (I don't believe this group has a particular tendency to want to hit stationary objects, though.)

uomo 6y ago
If anyone else was wondering what percent of drivers in the US have a suspended license it's 2.59% [1]. Which honestly surprised me because it seems lower than I was expecting. Fun fact: North Dakota has the most drivers with a suspended license at 7.75% and is followed by Ohio at 5.62% [2]. [1]: https://insurify.com/insights/cities-with-the-most-suspended-drivers-licenses/ https://insurify.com/insights/cities-with-the-most-suspended... [2]: https://insurify.com/insights/the-10-states-with-the-most-suspended-revoked-licenses/ https://insurify.com/insights/the-10-states-with-the-most-su...

mike_d 6y ago

Crash investigators don't need to take the drivers word for it. They have devices that plug into what is left of the ODB2 port or directly into the cars ECU and download the contents of the Event Data Recorder, which gives a usually 30 second snapshot of all the data leading up to an airbag deployment.

mdoms 6y ago

The problem with waiting for Tesla's side of the story is that not only do they have a very strong vested interest in one outcome, they have also been caught lying about this stuff before.

pengaru 6y ago

My license has been suspended for not renewing the registration/smogging disassembled vehicles used as parts donors in project cars. I had assumed the reasonable thing would occur; the plates would expire and become suspended, a non-issue for a chassis sawz-alled to bits and sold for scrap. Nope! Not in IL. While receiving a benign speeding ticket on a road-trip out of state, I learned my ostensibly valid DL was suspended, and what it feels like to be handcuffed, arrested, and processed at the station. Why had IL suspended my DL? Well, I was forced to stay out-of-state and appear in court that week, eventually learning why IL had suspended my license to defend my innocence: the disassembled vehicle hadn't passed a smog test that year. They suspended the vehicle owner's DL for this nonsense. The judge in the state I had to defend myself in didn't even know what a smog test was. It was a clown show across the board, with my pocket footing the bill at every turn. A suspended license is not a reliable indicator of anything other than bureaucratic fundraising by the state.

josefx 6y ago
> I had assumed the reasonable thing would occur; the plates would expire and become suspended, a non-issue for a chassis sawz-alled to bits and sold for scrap. That expectation seems to be at odds with everything I as a non car owner remember from my parents selling their cars. As far as I can find there often is no explicit requirement to deregister the car/plates, but with the exact problem you ran into: Even if everything ended up suspended the registration would still point at you, with a very good chance that you end up liable. > hadn't passed a smog test that year. Among the top reasons for people driving around with an expired registration apparently. So the police found exactly what it expected when it saw that expired registration with your name on it.
- pengaru 6y ago
  > So the police found exactly what it expected when it saw that expired registration with your name on it. What are you talking about? I wasn't driving a vehicle with expired tags, the vehicle in my name triggering the DL suspension had been DIY scrapped and the plates destroyed. I was pulled over for speeding, driving a friend's car on a road trip during my turn at the wheel. Reading comprehension fail...

drcongo 6y ago

I only come in to these threads to watch the Musk fanboys and Tesla apologists contort themselves into knots. This reply is a new high bar though, I love it, well done.