4 ms·

I'm sorry, but anti-vaxxer nutjobs do that hype all on their own. And people are already sensibly worried about rushed testing, and approval processes. (It is

I'm sorry, but anti-vaxxer nutjobs do that hype all on their own. And people are already sensibly worried about rushed testing, and approval processes. (It is sensible to be worried, and to keep a sharp eye.) Now there appears to be a complication with one vaccine. No hype is required, for people to become enraged if there is no investigation. Most jurisdictions have said 'pause for a few days, until we look into this'. This is very, very sensible. Logical. Calm and cool, as a reaction. Let me put this another way. By your response, you're suggestion that we should not have even bothered with clinical trials? Just inject anything we thought might work, right away, just in case? Because, if you're advocating against pausing, for something that would get a second look in a clinical trial... ?

afavour 6y ago
> By your response, you're suggestion that we should not have even bothered with clinical trials? Just inject anything we thought might work, right away, just in case? That's very clearly not my suggestion. You're being absurd. You're talking as if the AZ vaccine had no clinical trial. It did. It's been proven safe for the vast, vast majority of the population. At no point did I say that this shouldn't be investigated. It should be. But there is no need to pause the rollout of the vaccine while that happens. A reminder: 40 cases in 17 million. Very few of those 40 cases have been fatal. "Pause for a few days" is very generous. How many days? We all know investigations like this can go on for weeks. Months, even. All the while the much more dangerous thread, COVID, is allowed to spread further.
- bbarnett 6y ago
  The mouse brain derived Japanese Encephalitis caused death, often 2 years after vaccination. It too went through clinical trials, and seemed perfectly safe at first. It was pulled as a result. Yet, those clinical trials were not rushed, nor the government approvals, nor did it have the sort of pressure you are applying right now. Further, you have no idea how wide spread, or severe this may be. You cite numbers from the media, yet reject pausing, without even knowing the precise number of people unable to get vaccinated as a result, or if more cases of clotting may appear as time passes. You have no real data. Let's get some. FYI, we are not far apart ideologically here. I get what you are saying, but imagine this.. 2 weeks pass, and it is shown that the problem is quite severe. The vaccine is tossed. Next the anti-vaxxers, the media, start spewing words of distrust. Helpfully, the media shows a grandmother crying, for days, over and over, about her dead son. How many may refuse vaccination, and die then? I believe it makes more sense to demonstrate caution, due to the sad politics of humanity.

afavour 6y ago

> By your response, you're suggestion that we should not have even bothered with clinical trials? Just inject anything we thought might work, right away, just in case? That's very clearly not my suggestion. You're being absurd. You're talking as if the AZ vaccine had no clinical trial. It did. It's been proven safe for the vast, vast majority of the population. At no point did I say that this shouldn't be investigated. It should be. But there is no need to pause the rollout of the vaccine while that happens. A reminder: 40 cases in 17 million. Very few of those 40 cases have been fatal. "Pause for a few days" is very generous. How many days? We all know investigations like this can go on for weeks. Months, even. All the while the much more dangerous thread, COVID, is allowed to spread further.

bbarnett 6y ago
The mouse brain derived Japanese Encephalitis caused death, often 2 years after vaccination. It too went through clinical trials, and seemed perfectly safe at first. It was pulled as a result. Yet, those clinical trials were not rushed, nor the government approvals, nor did it have the sort of pressure you are applying right now. Further, you have no idea how wide spread, or severe this may be. You cite numbers from the media, yet reject pausing, without even knowing the precise number of people unable to get vaccinated as a result, or if more cases of clotting may appear as time passes. You have no real data. Let's get some. FYI, we are not far apart ideologically here. I get what you are saying, but imagine this.. 2 weeks pass, and it is shown that the problem is quite severe. The vaccine is tossed. Next the anti-vaxxers, the media, start spewing words of distrust. Helpfully, the media shows a grandmother crying, for days, over and over, about her dead son. How many may refuse vaccination, and die then? I believe it makes more sense to demonstrate caution, due to the sad politics of humanity.