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If they transition to white LED lights, it will be a big shame. White light disrupts our circadian rhythm, our sleep-wake cycle. It affects bugs, bats, and all

If they transition to white LED lights, it will be a big shame. White light disrupts our circadian rhythm, our sleep-wake cycle. It affects bugs, bats, and all sorts of wildlife. It would be much better for everyone if they moved to red street lights. https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/products/led/red-led-streetlights-make-uk-road-bat-friendly-2019-09/ https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/products/led/red-led-...

esperent 6y ago
I was totally with you up until the suggestion for red street lights. Besides the fact that it would make me feel like I was living in a horror film, I have a camping head torch with red and white lights (actually I've owned several over the years, from pricey to cheap) and the red light setting is close to useless. The only time I use it is if I wake up to step out of the tent and pee (it's great for not blinding me and waking me up) - but for actually doing anything it just doesn't provide enough light to see. Factor in that a big reason for street lighting is safety, and I don't think red lights will cut it, sadly, in spite of your valid points. Yellow lighting seems to be the happy median.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  > The only time I use [red light] is if I wake up to step out of the tent and pee > for actually doing anything it just doesn't provide enough light to see It sounds from your comment like red light is good enough for collision avoidance. Why else would light be needed from street lights? We all carry phones with flashlights nowadays.
  - esperent 6y ago
    I already mentioned in the parent comment - one of the main reasons for street lighting is safety, and a big part of that is making people feel less comfortable committing crimes because they think they might be recognized. Under red light, you are unlikely to be able to make out someone's face well enough to describe it later.
    - frabbit 6y ago
      Has there been a massive surge in crime now that all the criminals feel comfortable wearing their covid-masks? All this stuff is handwaving. Reminds me of all the pre-covid arguments about not letting demonstrators be masked and how muslim women's face coverings would bring society to a crashing halt because you could not interact properly with someone who had a covered face. In other words: little or no evidence. Just some people have a fear of the dark and others find that the indiscriminate lighting of streets disturbs their repose and relaxation.
- 1MachineElf 6y ago
  Red light are meant for viewing high-contrast easily-legible maps in the dark while not ruining your night vision, and also to not give away your position as easily as a cool light would. Their purpose is quite specific. I agree that they would be an extreme measure for street lighting, and I think that colorblind people would find them problematic.
1MachineElf 6y ago
Overall, I agree with you. Red lights are great for maintaining night-vision, but they're an extreme option. Color-blind people may also not get much use out of them.
- StrictDabbler 6y ago
  That's not how color-blindness works. In classic deuteranomaly the red and green cone peak sensitivities are closer together so red and green light are perceived similarly. The red cones aren't gone and in low light you aren't even using your cones, you're using your more sensitive rods. Rods are inherently color-blind in all of us. What is useful about a red light is that it has very little blue. Blue light is what causes the iris to contract. So the ideal night lighting would be a brightish mix of red and green to give the rods lots of light to see with almost no blue in it to stimulate the blue cones and cause the eyes to contract... Oh hey! That's what the yellow color of sodium lighting does if there aren't a bunch of stupid SUVs with bright white projector lamps all over the road. Fancy that.

esperent 6y ago

I was totally with you up until the suggestion for red street lights. Besides the fact that it would make me feel like I was living in a horror film, I have a camping head torch with red and white lights (actually I've owned several over the years, from pricey to cheap) and the red light setting is close to useless. The only time I use it is if I wake up to step out of the tent and pee (it's great for not blinding me and waking me up) - but for actually doing anything it just doesn't provide enough light to see. Factor in that a big reason for street lighting is safety, and I don't think red lights will cut it, sadly, in spite of your valid points. Yellow lighting seems to be the happy median.

TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
> The only time I use [red light] is if I wake up to step out of the tent and pee > for actually doing anything it just doesn't provide enough light to see It sounds from your comment like red light is good enough for collision avoidance. Why else would light be needed from street lights? We all carry phones with flashlights nowadays.
- esperent 6y ago
  I already mentioned in the parent comment - one of the main reasons for street lighting is safety, and a big part of that is making people feel less comfortable committing crimes because they think they might be recognized. Under red light, you are unlikely to be able to make out someone's face well enough to describe it later.
  - frabbit 6y ago
    Has there been a massive surge in crime now that all the criminals feel comfortable wearing their covid-masks? All this stuff is handwaving. Reminds me of all the pre-covid arguments about not letting demonstrators be masked and how muslim women's face coverings would bring society to a crashing halt because you could not interact properly with someone who had a covered face. In other words: little or no evidence. Just some people have a fear of the dark and others find that the indiscriminate lighting of streets disturbs their repose and relaxation.
1MachineElf 6y ago
Red light are meant for viewing high-contrast easily-legible maps in the dark while not ruining your night vision, and also to not give away your position as easily as a cool light would. Their purpose is quite specific. I agree that they would be an extreme measure for street lighting, and I think that colorblind people would find them problematic.

1MachineElf 6y ago

Overall, I agree with you. Red lights are great for maintaining night-vision, but they're an extreme option. Color-blind people may also not get much use out of them.

StrictDabbler 6y ago
That's not how color-blindness works. In classic deuteranomaly the red and green cone peak sensitivities are closer together so red and green light are perceived similarly. The red cones aren't gone and in low light you aren't even using your cones, you're using your more sensitive rods. Rods are inherently color-blind in all of us. What is useful about a red light is that it has very little blue. Blue light is what causes the iris to contract. So the ideal night lighting would be a brightish mix of red and green to give the rods lots of light to see with almost no blue in it to stimulate the blue cones and cause the eyes to contract... Oh hey! That's what the yellow color of sodium lighting does if there aren't a bunch of stupid SUVs with bright white projector lamps all over the road. Fancy that.