3 ms·

Or perhaps it is you who doesn't understand the word 'abstain'. If your partner changes mind mid-act, of course you stop - that is abstaining from further acti

Or perhaps it is you who doesn't understand the word 'abstain'. If your partner changes mind mid-act, of course you stop - that is abstaining from further activity. The point is, this is precisely the kind of confusion to avoid by maintaining abstinence as your primary mindset. It is the only way to be sure: abstain at all costs, even if you were given consent, because that consent is not immutable.

viraptor 6y ago
No, I understand abstain and don't care about it in this context. I'm speaking out against the "change their mind after the fact" idea which gets brought up way too often as a possibility. It's disrespectful when discussing consent. You responded to a message which mentioned changing one's mind in terms of continuous consent, not false rape accusations. These are different things. If you want to talk about false rape accusations, don't call it "change of mind".
- oilbagz 6y ago
  "Change their mind after the fact" = you had consent, you no longer have it, stop what you're doing - i.e. abstain from further activity. And that is the point - you're already in the danger zone if you've started and consent has been retracted. Better to just abstain entirely and not engage in sexual activity, at all, under those conditions. No means no, always. To protect yourself from the "yes .. yes .. okay, no" dilemma .. just say no to casual, irresponsible sex - in the first place. It is only way to be sure you won't get accused of assault, and even then, if you're not checking for continued consent every few milliseconds while engaged in the act, you're probably having very, very dangerous sex ... so just don't bother.
  - xg15 6y ago
    Have you ever actually tried it out or are you just talking about your own imagination here?
    - oilbagz 6y ago
      Sure have. Never been raped, never been accused of it, and have a lot of happy, consensual sex all the time. However, I will be teaching my teenage boys that "Yes is not always Yes, it can be changed", and that "No thanks, I'll abstain, even if you give me explicit consent" is always the safest approach.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    > To protect yourself from the "yes .. yes .. okay, no" dilemma Why protect yourself? Why is this a dilemma? If you stop when asked, it's not an assault. If you're worried about this, you're worried about false rape accusations, not some dilemma about people changing their mind. "if you're not checking for continued consent every few milliseconds" is an imagined problem taken to extreme. People who actually change their mind during sex will tell you about it and not treat it as assault.
    - oilbagz 6y ago
      Because withdrawn-consent can be used offensively. False rape accusation do happen and have resulted in many, many ruined lives - of people who legitimately and honestly thought they had consent, where the court later did not agree. Ignorance of this fact doesn't support your argument.
      - viraptor 6y ago
        I don't disagree false accusations happen. I'm saying that it's shitty to bring them up when a legitimate change of mind is discussed. Yet people keep popping up whatabouting this one, like someone's just waiting to accuse them of something.
        kolinko 6y ago
        If you want to make a change in society, you need to consider the risks invilved. It’s important to see how prone to abuse is a new law that will be introduced.
        oilbagz 6y ago
        False Rape Accusations are a form of abuse. Rape is also a form of abuse. They are not equivalent, but can certainly lead to the same order of life-destruction magnitude in either case. Both of these things are relevant in the discussion of consensual sex, and I disagree with your attempt to elevate one position over the other. Rape is bad because it negates a persons agency over themselves and denies them their basic human rights - false rape accusations also deny a person their basic agency and human rights. Best way to avoid either case: just don't have sex, i.e. learn the value of abstinence.

viraptor 6y ago

No, I understand abstain and don't care about it in this context. I'm speaking out against the "change their mind after the fact" idea which gets brought up way too often as a possibility. It's disrespectful when discussing consent. You responded to a message which mentioned changing one's mind in terms of continuous consent, not false rape accusations. These are different things. If you want to talk about false rape accusations, don't call it "change of mind".

oilbagz 6y ago
"Change their mind after the fact" = you had consent, you no longer have it, stop what you're doing - i.e. abstain from further activity. And that is the point - you're already in the danger zone if you've started and consent has been retracted. Better to just abstain entirely and not engage in sexual activity, at all, under those conditions. No means no, always. To protect yourself from the "yes .. yes .. okay, no" dilemma .. just say no to casual, irresponsible sex - in the first place. It is only way to be sure you won't get accused of assault, and even then, if you're not checking for continued consent every few milliseconds while engaged in the act, you're probably having very, very dangerous sex ... so just don't bother.
- xg15 6y ago
  Have you ever actually tried it out or are you just talking about your own imagination here?
  - oilbagz 6y ago
    Sure have. Never been raped, never been accused of it, and have a lot of happy, consensual sex all the time. However, I will be teaching my teenage boys that "Yes is not always Yes, it can be changed", and that "No thanks, I'll abstain, even if you give me explicit consent" is always the safest approach.
- viraptor 6y ago
  > To protect yourself from the "yes .. yes .. okay, no" dilemma Why protect yourself? Why is this a dilemma? If you stop when asked, it's not an assault. If you're worried about this, you're worried about false rape accusations, not some dilemma about people changing their mind. "if you're not checking for continued consent every few milliseconds" is an imagined problem taken to extreme. People who actually change their mind during sex will tell you about it and not treat it as assault.
  - oilbagz 6y ago
    Because withdrawn-consent can be used offensively. False rape accusation do happen and have resulted in many, many ruined lives - of people who legitimately and honestly thought they had consent, where the court later did not agree. Ignorance of this fact doesn't support your argument.
    - viraptor 6y ago
      I don't disagree false accusations happen. I'm saying that it's shitty to bring them up when a legitimate change of mind is discussed. Yet people keep popping up whatabouting this one, like someone's just waiting to accuse them of something.
      - kolinko 6y ago
        If you want to make a change in society, you need to consider the risks invilved. It’s important to see how prone to abuse is a new law that will be introduced.
      - oilbagz 6y ago
        False Rape Accusations are a form of abuse. Rape is also a form of abuse. They are not equivalent, but can certainly lead to the same order of life-destruction magnitude in either case. Both of these things are relevant in the discussion of consensual sex, and I disagree with your attempt to elevate one position over the other. Rape is bad because it negates a persons agency over themselves and denies them their basic human rights - false rape accusations also deny a person their basic agency and human rights. Best way to avoid either case: just don't have sex, i.e. learn the value of abstinence.