4 ms·

Timeline: 7 years: Work for someone else. Try 5 ideas on the side. Save money 3 years: Tried 2 ideas and spent all the money 4 years: Worked for someone else

Timeline: 7 years: Work for someone else. Try 5 ideas on the side. Save money 3 years: Tried 2 ideas and spent all the money 4 years: Worked for someone else. Tried 20 ideas on the side. Last became profitable and then I quit. It was really tough. I was working 14 hours every day between full time job and my other ideas. I grew up really poor, so had to do it the hard way. But I had an overwhelming desire to not work for someone else. That kept me going. We delayed having kids because of this and that is my biggest regret.

randomsearch 6y ago
> We delayed having kids because of this and that is my biggest regret. Don't answer if this is too personal - but why the regret? It sounds like you have had kids, so perhaps it got harder? Or you had fewer than you wanted. Why do you regret it?
- bootstrapper101 6y ago
  Every year you delay having kids, you are reducing the amount of time you will spend with your kids and grandkids. As you get older, the quality of time you spend with them will also get worse. My wife went through lot of difficulties in her pregnancies. It would have been easier for her body, if we had kids earlier. My drive to get out of the corporate slavery was the reason for the delay. So I regret the delay.
  - herodoturtle 6y ago
    Hey man, if it's any consolation, my folks had me when they were very young, and I barely spent any time with them whilst growing up. As immigrants we had it pretty tough financially, and they were always working long hours (always for someone else) to try make ends meet. They harbour significant regret about not being more present in my childhood. These days they're of course much older, and I am in the lucky position to be able to look after them financially, but they're also filled with added regret about depending on me - they feel like failures because rely on me to cover all their expenses - despite my best efforts to assure them that it's ok. So to your point, whilst having kids younger means you can spend more time with them when you're older, it's not necessarily the better solution if it requires a trade-off in terms of first establishing yourself financially - and from reading your other comments - it sounds like you and I both started off in life with relatively little, so I think the choice to first secure ourselves financially before having kids makes more sense. I delayed having kids with my wife until relatively late (I was 37 she was 33), and whilst I know this will probably reduce the amount of time I'll get to spend with my children when I'm much older, the peace of mind that has come with having first established my SaaS before starting a family is immense. In fact one could argue that the reduced stress alone will probably add 10 years on to my life :-) Thanks for sharing your inspirational comments above and below. Enjoyed reading all of them. And congratulations on the success - I'm sure it is well deserved.
    - bootstrapper101 6y ago
      I know. We had kids around the same age. In my case my big mistake was moving to US mid way in career. It disrupted by established life and I had to start over from scratch. If I had stayed in my native country, I would have been able to have kids earlier. Thanks for sharing your experience!
  - jcims 6y ago
    I'm looking at folks that are having kids when they are older than i was and they seem to have their shit together so much more. In looking back I feel like I squandered some of the time I had with my children by not really understanding how fast the years go by and focusing too much on being a provider vs. being present. My youngest is ready to leave the home and I still have these flickering day dreams of these things I'm going to do with my kids and I still see them as kids.
  - alexyz12 6y ago
    How did you have time to raise kids while working at your startup? It seems thats what corporate jobs are great for because you spend less time at work.
    - bootstrapper101 6y ago
      I had kids after my startup was successful!
  - robertlagrant 6y ago
    This is exactly right - I've had my kids in my mid 30s, and while there are upsides, there are downsides. At a friend's wedding, his great grandmother was there. Hearing that, I realised there is an amazing upside to having kids a little earlier.
    - brandonmenc 6y ago
      My great grandmothers were alive until I was in my 20s, but they were like, practically in arranged marriages when they were 14. I know this is an extreme example but, talk about downsides!
      - blacktriangle 6y ago
        Is it? Every study on arranged marriages I've seen points to lower divorce rates and higher general happiness. Assuming your parents aren't assholes they'll try and do right by their kids. And the nice thing about an arranged marriage is that it's two people not following some illusions of effortless love and happiness, but two people coming together to collaboratively build that love and happiness.
        brandonmenc 6y ago
        Uh, yeah. One of my great grandmothers was in an actual arranged marriage at age 14 to a man who was like 60 years old. She managed to get out of that one, but had to marry another man (my great grandfather, who I never met) to do it. It was a different world back then, but compressing generations to the point where you are able to know your great grandparents usually requires some creative accounting that wouldn't fly for most people today.
        robertlagrant 6y ago
        It was a different world, but it sounds as though the first marriage was irrelevant to the timeline of you knowing her.
  - artemonster 6y ago
    How old are you now, if I may? Were you having your kids in late 40ies?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
YetAnotherNick 6y ago
> Could grow 10x if we want to. But we are enjoying staying low and enjoying our family lives. > I was working 14 hours every day between full time job and my other ideas. We delayed having kids because of this and that is my biggest regret. I know it's your choice but haven't you still sacrificed your personal life, so why not try to become 10x?
- bootstrapper101 6y ago
  I don't spend the money I already make. Not sure what I would do with 10x money. 1% ungrateful complaining consumer out of 1 million users are 10k users. I don't like dealing with them. At 10x the business they might become 100k or more. I would rather have 10k high paying Saas customers and weed out the ungrateful ones there but to their face. Currently we are working above the board with no dark patterns. We have one of the best customer service and refund policies across possibly all consumer internet companies. Our competitors have lot of dark patterns. To grow 10k, we might need to do shittier things which I don't want to. I know there are lot of founders and executives out there who would be fine doing dark patterns for growth. But I am not and maybe that is my shortcoming and which is why I didn't want to grow in the Corporate ladder. If I own the company, I can have final say on these things.
  - digaozao 6y ago
    Congratulations for the integrity. Hard to find online businesses totally honest without dark patterns
  - throwaway11002 6y ago
    Can I ask how you're handling customer service? I'm a one-man company and it's the most draining part of my business. It's so tempting to outsource first line support but I also feel there's some value in answering all the emails yourself because you know your customers' needs. And I'm not sure how to even outsource support. Do I just hire someone part-time from some gig website and pay them for X hours/week? I think one dedicated customer support person would do wonders for my business but it would require about ~5-10 hours of work per week. And customer support is something you get better at the longer you do it, so I don't want to constantly hire replacements, especially if it's going to be just one person doing support.
newbie578 6y ago
Congrats to you for finally succeeding! Just that your way of climbing doesn't sound quite fun. Spending 7 years working 14 hours a day, full of stress, and fail 20 times straight? That sounds like a recipe for disaster. I wonder how many people are doing the same things you were doing and are still not successful... I got a simple question, was it worth it and what would you change?
- bootstrapper101 6y ago
  I love building products. The financial success was a side product. I should have qualified my statement about failures better. Current one: Financially successful for me. Another one: Financially successful but got screwed over. Another one: Was very successful with adoption, but timing got wrong and didn't become financially successful. 2 others: Moderate success but financially not successful. It was really tough, but I enjoyed the process. I love building products. I have a few really good ideas, but don't have bandwidth for them right now. I would keep building products for my love of it. My long term goal is to leave the world a better place. It took 10+ years to get to the point that I can work on anything I want to without worrying about bills. I regret delaying having kids. I regret not spending enough time with family and friends. I wish I had taken better care of my health. But right now I get to spend more time with my kids than any of my friends. Every individual is different with their situation and motivations. What worked for me might not work for others. The thing which helped me the most was my innate desire to build better products and making sure I keep learning more and more. My life's driving principle is: If I can't look back at my self 2 years back and I don't think I was so stupid back then I am not learning fast enough. Even though I have regrets, I would say it was worth it. Of course if I could I wish few things would have gone differently about my life - but who doesn't.
  - reasonabl_human 6y ago
    Thanks for all of your insights here, really great stuff. The 2y growth mindset is especially refreshing to hear. Also if you are looking to expand into new ideas and want eng folks with more time on their hands I have a group that would be interested. Currently we are evaluating ideas to go off and build after coming to terms with the big tech corporate grind.
baxtr 6y ago
Oh man. Wow. Incredible. I am really really glad it worked out well for you. I am in the same position like you were. I never want to go back to corporate hell, so my ideas have to work :D What was your biggest lesson? Is there one thing you would do differently now if you could?
- bootstrapper101 6y ago
  If you love what you are doing, it will give you the drive to keep doing it. Listen to Naval's podcast about "How to get rich". He knows how to put ideas much better than me. There are no shortcuts and if I tell you my winning lottery number after claiming the prize, it's not worth anything. Discover how you can provide value in your own unique way.
  - moneywoes 6y ago
    I agree with your premise that everyone has to provide value in their own unique way. However, what skills primed you for success? You mentioned knowing the equation between CLV and CAC. Any similar knowledge? What about on the software side? I imagine marketing (PPC,SEO) is more important than tech stack.
    - bootstrapper101 6y ago
      As I mentioned in other posts, I focussed on learning and pace. I first went moderately deep on technology skills. Then on a need basis, I kind of did a BFS on all skills needs to build and run a startup. Eventually all the skills are important. One other thing I really put a lot of effort in is trying to put me in the shoes of other parties. E.g. if I am trying to launch an idea I try to get in the shoes of engineer, pm, design, marketing, analytics and end user. Given that I have played all of these roles to some extent, it helps me make better decisions.
xwdv 6y ago
If you’re getting older and don’t have kids yet, would you recommend then not having kids at all or still having them anyway? Maybe it would be better to seek a young wife then if you plan to be ambitious?
- bootstrapper101 6y ago
  All the questions you are asking are coming from your head and not your heart! With wife and kids you want to follow your heart as long as your head (life situation) can support it. If you would want to love your kids and be there for them, have them whenever you can. Nothing is guaranteed for anyone. Make your best case effort and love them from the bottom of your heart. Don't seek out wife like an agenda. That is a receipt for disaster. I married my wife because that was the first person I met where my thought process was: "How can I make her happy" not "How does this person fulfill my image and needs from a life partner". Your expectations from your life partner might change with time. If you start with a baseline and it doesn't hold anymore, it would likely lead to discontent and possibly separation. Expectation is the bane of all relationship. For immediate family just focus on what you can give and don't expect anything back.
  - mariushn 6y ago
    Thank you for sharing this

randomsearch 6y ago

> We delayed having kids because of this and that is my biggest regret. Don't answer if this is too personal - but why the regret? It sounds like you have had kids, so perhaps it got harder? Or you had fewer than you wanted. Why do you regret it?

bootstrapper101 6y ago
Every year you delay having kids, you are reducing the amount of time you will spend with your kids and grandkids. As you get older, the quality of time you spend with them will also get worse. My wife went through lot of difficulties in her pregnancies. It would have been easier for her body, if we had kids earlier. My drive to get out of the corporate slavery was the reason for the delay. So I regret the delay.
- herodoturtle 6y ago
  Hey man, if it's any consolation, my folks had me when they were very young, and I barely spent any time with them whilst growing up. As immigrants we had it pretty tough financially, and they were always working long hours (always for someone else) to try make ends meet. They harbour significant regret about not being more present in my childhood. These days they're of course much older, and I am in the lucky position to be able to look after them financially, but they're also filled with added regret about depending on me - they feel like failures because rely on me to cover all their expenses - despite my best efforts to assure them that it's ok. So to your point, whilst having kids younger means you can spend more time with them when you're older, it's not necessarily the better solution if it requires a trade-off in terms of first establishing yourself financially - and from reading your other comments - it sounds like you and I both started off in life with relatively little, so I think the choice to first secure ourselves financially before having kids makes more sense. I delayed having kids with my wife until relatively late (I was 37 she was 33), and whilst I know this will probably reduce the amount of time I'll get to spend with my children when I'm much older, the peace of mind that has come with having first established my SaaS before starting a family is immense. In fact one could argue that the reduced stress alone will probably add 10 years on to my life :-) Thanks for sharing your inspirational comments above and below. Enjoyed reading all of them. And congratulations on the success - I'm sure it is well deserved.
  - bootstrapper101 6y ago
    I know. We had kids around the same age. In my case my big mistake was moving to US mid way in career. It disrupted by established life and I had to start over from scratch. If I had stayed in my native country, I would have been able to have kids earlier. Thanks for sharing your experience!
- jcims 6y ago
  I'm looking at folks that are having kids when they are older than i was and they seem to have their shit together so much more. In looking back I feel like I squandered some of the time I had with my children by not really understanding how fast the years go by and focusing too much on being a provider vs. being present. My youngest is ready to leave the home and I still have these flickering day dreams of these things I'm going to do with my kids and I still see them as kids.
- alexyz12 6y ago
  How did you have time to raise kids while working at your startup? It seems thats what corporate jobs are great for because you spend less time at work.
  - bootstrapper101 6y ago
    I had kids after my startup was successful!
- robertlagrant 6y ago
  This is exactly right - I've had my kids in my mid 30s, and while there are upsides, there are downsides. At a friend's wedding, his great grandmother was there. Hearing that, I realised there is an amazing upside to having kids a little earlier.
  - brandonmenc 6y ago
    My great grandmothers were alive until I was in my 20s, but they were like, practically in arranged marriages when they were 14. I know this is an extreme example but, talk about downsides!
    - blacktriangle 6y ago
      Is it? Every study on arranged marriages I've seen points to lower divorce rates and higher general happiness. Assuming your parents aren't assholes they'll try and do right by their kids. And the nice thing about an arranged marriage is that it's two people not following some illusions of effortless love and happiness, but two people coming together to collaboratively build that love and happiness.
      - brandonmenc 6y ago
        Uh, yeah. One of my great grandmothers was in an actual arranged marriage at age 14 to a man who was like 60 years old. She managed to get out of that one, but had to marry another man (my great grandfather, who I never met) to do it. It was a different world back then, but compressing generations to the point where you are able to know your great grandparents usually requires some creative accounting that wouldn't fly for most people today.
        robertlagrant 6y ago
        It was a different world, but it sounds as though the first marriage was irrelevant to the timeline of you knowing her.
- artemonster 6y ago
  How old are you now, if I may? Were you having your kids in late 40ies?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

YetAnotherNick 6y ago

> Could grow 10x if we want to. But we are enjoying staying low and enjoying our family lives. > I was working 14 hours every day between full time job and my other ideas. We delayed having kids because of this and that is my biggest regret. I know it's your choice but haven't you still sacrificed your personal life, so why not try to become 10x?

bootstrapper101 6y ago
I don't spend the money I already make. Not sure what I would do with 10x money. 1% ungrateful complaining consumer out of 1 million users are 10k users. I don't like dealing with them. At 10x the business they might become 100k or more. I would rather have 10k high paying Saas customers and weed out the ungrateful ones there but to their face. Currently we are working above the board with no dark patterns. We have one of the best customer service and refund policies across possibly all consumer internet companies. Our competitors have lot of dark patterns. To grow 10k, we might need to do shittier things which I don't want to. I know there are lot of founders and executives out there who would be fine doing dark patterns for growth. But I am not and maybe that is my shortcoming and which is why I didn't want to grow in the Corporate ladder. If I own the company, I can have final say on these things.
- digaozao 6y ago
  Congratulations for the integrity. Hard to find online businesses totally honest without dark patterns
- throwaway11002 6y ago
  Can I ask how you're handling customer service? I'm a one-man company and it's the most draining part of my business. It's so tempting to outsource first line support but I also feel there's some value in answering all the emails yourself because you know your customers' needs. And I'm not sure how to even outsource support. Do I just hire someone part-time from some gig website and pay them for X hours/week? I think one dedicated customer support person would do wonders for my business but it would require about ~5-10 hours of work per week. And customer support is something you get better at the longer you do it, so I don't want to constantly hire replacements, especially if it's going to be just one person doing support.

newbie578 6y ago

Congrats to you for finally succeeding! Just that your way of climbing doesn't sound quite fun. Spending 7 years working 14 hours a day, full of stress, and fail 20 times straight? That sounds like a recipe for disaster. I wonder how many people are doing the same things you were doing and are still not successful... I got a simple question, was it worth it and what would you change?

bootstrapper101 6y ago
I love building products. The financial success was a side product. I should have qualified my statement about failures better. Current one: Financially successful for me. Another one: Financially successful but got screwed over. Another one: Was very successful with adoption, but timing got wrong and didn't become financially successful. 2 others: Moderate success but financially not successful. It was really tough, but I enjoyed the process. I love building products. I have a few really good ideas, but don't have bandwidth for them right now. I would keep building products for my love of it. My long term goal is to leave the world a better place. It took 10+ years to get to the point that I can work on anything I want to without worrying about bills. I regret delaying having kids. I regret not spending enough time with family and friends. I wish I had taken better care of my health. But right now I get to spend more time with my kids than any of my friends. Every individual is different with their situation and motivations. What worked for me might not work for others. The thing which helped me the most was my innate desire to build better products and making sure I keep learning more and more. My life's driving principle is: If I can't look back at my self 2 years back and I don't think I was so stupid back then I am not learning fast enough. Even though I have regrets, I would say it was worth it. Of course if I could I wish few things would have gone differently about my life - but who doesn't.
- reasonabl_human 6y ago
  Thanks for all of your insights here, really great stuff. The 2y growth mindset is especially refreshing to hear. Also if you are looking to expand into new ideas and want eng folks with more time on their hands I have a group that would be interested. Currently we are evaluating ideas to go off and build after coming to terms with the big tech corporate grind.

baxtr 6y ago

Oh man. Wow. Incredible. I am really really glad it worked out well for you. I am in the same position like you were. I never want to go back to corporate hell, so my ideas have to work :D What was your biggest lesson? Is there one thing you would do differently now if you could?

bootstrapper101 6y ago
If you love what you are doing, it will give you the drive to keep doing it. Listen to Naval's podcast about "How to get rich". He knows how to put ideas much better than me. There are no shortcuts and if I tell you my winning lottery number after claiming the prize, it's not worth anything. Discover how you can provide value in your own unique way.
- moneywoes 6y ago
  I agree with your premise that everyone has to provide value in their own unique way. However, what skills primed you for success? You mentioned knowing the equation between CLV and CAC. Any similar knowledge? What about on the software side? I imagine marketing (PPC,SEO) is more important than tech stack.
  - bootstrapper101 6y ago
    As I mentioned in other posts, I focussed on learning and pace. I first went moderately deep on technology skills. Then on a need basis, I kind of did a BFS on all skills needs to build and run a startup. Eventually all the skills are important. One other thing I really put a lot of effort in is trying to put me in the shoes of other parties. E.g. if I am trying to launch an idea I try to get in the shoes of engineer, pm, design, marketing, analytics and end user. Given that I have played all of these roles to some extent, it helps me make better decisions.

xwdv 6y ago

If you’re getting older and don’t have kids yet, would you recommend then not having kids at all or still having them anyway? Maybe it would be better to seek a young wife then if you plan to be ambitious?

bootstrapper101 6y ago
All the questions you are asking are coming from your head and not your heart! With wife and kids you want to follow your heart as long as your head (life situation) can support it. If you would want to love your kids and be there for them, have them whenever you can. Nothing is guaranteed for anyone. Make your best case effort and love them from the bottom of your heart. Don't seek out wife like an agenda. That is a receipt for disaster. I married my wife because that was the first person I met where my thought process was: "How can I make her happy" not "How does this person fulfill my image and needs from a life partner". Your expectations from your life partner might change with time. If you start with a baseline and it doesn't hold anymore, it would likely lead to discontent and possibly separation. Expectation is the bane of all relationship. For immediate family just focus on what you can give and don't expect anything back.
- mariushn 6y ago
  Thank you for sharing this