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I work a lot. And work out a lot. And read. Honestly I'm powered by pain. You said you are embarassed of yourself. Your not embarrassed as much as I am when I d

I work a lot. And work out a lot. And read. Honestly I'm powered by pain. You said you are embarassed of yourself. Your not embarrassed as much as I am when I do that. When I fail my goals I am filled with such powerful emotions.... First it is depression, but then the depression turns to anger, then I harness the anger into a laser beam and do really hard things like get up at 6am to work on a side project before work, or go on a long run, or do something else hard. After a long period of depression a few years ago, I started running. I had never done this before. The first few runs I would have negative, depressing self talk, like how I am failing to live up to my potential and will probably continue to fail because life is hard and what's the point. Then after a few weeks I began to have self respect. The self talk was positive. Then after a few months the self talk turned to rage. An angry father figure archetype in my head yelling at me for every mistake. While running one day, I realized: the self talk doesn't matter. All that matters is that I don't quit. It doesn't matter how you feel, it matters what you do. It doesn't matter that you don't want to get up earlier, it just matters if you do it. It doesn't matter if your not motivated if you just don't quit. For me, I put myself through painful things because not doing that is more painful. I hold myself to a high standard and am hard on myself when I don't achieve my goals. Bright light. Dark shadow. Over the past decade of this, I have bounced between the poles of this spectrum: highly motivated, working a lot, and irritable, arrogant... Unmotivated, weak, tired, bored, kind... At this point I have learned to navigate and manipulate my emotional state such that I am stable over a long term. The place where you are in, to me, has one clear solution: rage. Internally focused anger has always brought me out of depression. It is not something I choose, it arises slowly over long periods of failure. Many people who fail for a long time will let their anger spill out into the world, wasting their only chance to change themselves. Instead, you must keep the target of your rage on yourself, the part of you that has failed and will continue to fail. Your better than him, aren't you?

muffinman26 6y ago
This used to work for me, but there is a limit to how much rage can help. As an adult, the anger only seems to lead to an endless cycle of pain and burnout. It's too easy for me to fall into the cycle of: "Oh, you're in pain, you should try harder, you're weak, pathetic, and useless." -> Try even harder. -> Debilitating injury -> Tiny bit of progress towards recovery. -> "Come on, you're a total weakling, you shouldn't have taken a break, work harder." -> Injure self again. I haven't figured out how to fix this cycle. It was much easier before lockdown when I had external feedback (gym buddies, etc.) on what was just cowardice and what was actually pushing myself too hard.
- nightowl_games 6y ago
  I think I've got a good handle on it now. Basically I don't get as angry anymore, and I don't get as depressed anymore, and I don't work as hard anymore. Using terms like "rage" is off-putting to alot of people, but the reality is that I set all my personal records in exercise when I was super pissed off about something that happened in my life. The softer approach now is that I understand that the "I am not good enough" mindset is a powerful one that is behind many successful people's motivation. It's kinda a paradox, because you basically think "I am the best", but also "I am not good enough"... Putting it together into something cohesive is more like "I am capable of being better than I currently am". The emotional stuff is kinda like "I will suffer more if I don't do this". Like self imposed suffering caused by dissapointment.
0x008 6y ago
I am happy it worked for you. However, for me it didn't. Trying to "power through it" for me lead down a dark path towards a burnout. Everybody needs their own narrative. What matters in the end is getting rid of negative thoughts that tell us we are not good enough. The way we get there probably is very different for everybody.
- nightowl_games 6y ago
  > What matters in the end is getting rid of negative thoughts that tell us we are not good enough. Are you sure about that? What if we are truly not good enough? What if we are sleep walking into climate disaster and despotism? Life isn't just about feeling good. Life is mostly not about feeling good. I'd frame this as "What matters in the end is getting rid of our negative actions that harm ourselves and those around us". Negative thoughts are important and useful. We pummel ourselves with media, trash food and dopamine in order to suppress our negative thoughts, meanwhile multiple existential crises are unfolding around us, do you really think "getting rid of negative thoughts" is wise?

muffinman26 6y ago

This used to work for me, but there is a limit to how much rage can help. As an adult, the anger only seems to lead to an endless cycle of pain and burnout. It's too easy for me to fall into the cycle of: "Oh, you're in pain, you should try harder, you're weak, pathetic, and useless." -> Try even harder. -> Debilitating injury -> Tiny bit of progress towards recovery. -> "Come on, you're a total weakling, you shouldn't have taken a break, work harder." -> Injure self again. I haven't figured out how to fix this cycle. It was much easier before lockdown when I had external feedback (gym buddies, etc.) on what was just cowardice and what was actually pushing myself too hard.

nightowl_games 6y ago
I think I've got a good handle on it now. Basically I don't get as angry anymore, and I don't get as depressed anymore, and I don't work as hard anymore. Using terms like "rage" is off-putting to alot of people, but the reality is that I set all my personal records in exercise when I was super pissed off about something that happened in my life. The softer approach now is that I understand that the "I am not good enough" mindset is a powerful one that is behind many successful people's motivation. It's kinda a paradox, because you basically think "I am the best", but also "I am not good enough"... Putting it together into something cohesive is more like "I am capable of being better than I currently am". The emotional stuff is kinda like "I will suffer more if I don't do this". Like self imposed suffering caused by dissapointment.

0x008 6y ago

I am happy it worked for you. However, for me it didn't. Trying to "power through it" for me lead down a dark path towards a burnout. Everybody needs their own narrative. What matters in the end is getting rid of negative thoughts that tell us we are not good enough. The way we get there probably is very different for everybody.

nightowl_games 6y ago
> What matters in the end is getting rid of negative thoughts that tell us we are not good enough. Are you sure about that? What if we are truly not good enough? What if we are sleep walking into climate disaster and despotism? Life isn't just about feeling good. Life is mostly not about feeling good. I'd frame this as "What matters in the end is getting rid of our negative actions that harm ourselves and those around us". Negative thoughts are important and useful. We pummel ourselves with media, trash food and dopamine in order to suppress our negative thoughts, meanwhile multiple existential crises are unfolding around us, do you really think "getting rid of negative thoughts" is wise?