4 ms·

In my case, it turned out to be ADHD, which is far more nuanced than people make it out to be. For a person to do something, there are two components: 1) motiv

by bmer 6y ago

In my case, it turned out to be ADHD, which is far more nuanced than people make it out to be. For a person to do something, there are two components: 1) motivation, and 2) activation. Activation is how "easy" it is to get going. Activation has an aspect of mental state to it, and an aspect of engineering (e.g. many dark design patterns work by reducing the activation needed to do what the designer wants you to). People with ADHD need much more activation than the usual person to get going. So, a common refrain is "I must be lazy, because I can't bring myself to do the things I care about". Once an ADHD person is over the activation hump though, they face a different challenge: stopping. Stopping in a timely fashion is necessary for good health (need to sleep, and eat), and consistent progress (doing a little bit every day is much better than "a lot" one day in two months). But, whether you have ADHD or not, don't discount the impact of the $$$ spent engineering various services so that they require as little activation as possible. I'm not yet sure what the solution to this is, but I think being aware of the activation/motivation distinction is a good first step to eventually reaching a solution.

vcavallo 6y ago
interesting. > being aware of the activation/motivation distinction is a good first step what’s the second step? :) Do you have thoughts on adderall?
- bluefirebrand 6y ago
  My thoughts on adderall are: I don't think Doctor's even actually prescribe that anymore. You'd likely get a modern drug that is timed release instead.
  - vcavallo 6y ago
    Point taken. I was thinking more along the lines of: any personal experience? have you found that it helps with the activation problem you're describing?
    - bluefirebrand 6y ago
      I'm not the person you originally asked, but I can give my experience. I was diagnosed with ADHD-inattentive last December, so I've been on a very low dose of what I'm told is basically just timed-release adderall for about 4 months. So far it's been positive. I find it helps me change contexts more easily and not bounce off of the new context and revert to phone scrolling. It helps me get over that activation hump more easily I think as well. One effect that I didn't anticipate is since I started on it I find I sleep better, wake up groggy less, and have an easier time getting out of bed in the morning. That's probably partly related to this: I had to cut out caffeine almost entirely because it would make my heart race. If I want coffee I can have decaf that seems ok. I can have a mug of tea but if I have two my heart is pounding. Same with soda. I used to drink a can of diet coke a day. There is caffeine free diet coke too which I have but I find I drink it much less frequently. The heart racing has been the only negative side effect I've noticed and cutting out caffeine has fixed it so overall that's probably for the best. Sorry for the snark before. I don't actually know if Adderall is prescribed anymore, it might be. When I was looking for advice on how to approach a doctor about a possible ADHD diagnosis as an adult one of the things I was told was "don't mention medication, especially not Adderall, they might think you're drug seeking. Focus on the diagnosis first, then treatment". So I reacted poorly. Sorry again.
      - lambda_tango 6y ago
        Part of amphetamine's effects include an increase in energy during the day, which helps make you tired in the evening when it wears off. Sometimes instant release (Adderrall or Dexedrine) is prescribed to supplement a time release version, particularly if you experience "the 5 o'clock crash". If your on something like Vyvanse, you might have to up the dose after months, possibly even years, as your tolerance builds. Supposedly it's possible to reach a dose that balances against your metabolism, and you won't need to increase it again. I found that, at a high enough dose, my jaw started clenching quite a bit, and I had the occasional heart murmurs. I do drink the equivalent of 3-4 cups of coffee on a regular basis. If anyone experiences those side effects, I highly recommend chelated magnesium. Worked wonders for me.
  - caddemon 6y ago
    There's an extended release version of Adderall, but also even instant release Adderall is still quite common to prescribe. Compared to other psychiatric drugs discovered in the same time frame, Adderall is remarkably effective, and I think this is reflected in the relatively small amount of research that has subsequently gone into ADHD treatment. There's also of course a market of people looking for Adderall IR prescription to help them study or work. I can only really speak to what I've seen working at a hospital in the northeast US, but it seems that as of 2018 amphetamine was the most prescribed drug type for ADHD across the country, and actually going up: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6261411/#!po=21.5278 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6261411/#!po=21...
vixit 6y ago
This is what I struggle with. The activation, or executive function, is often missing with folks who have ADHD. Things that I have found which help: 1. Set a timer/alarm for you to get up and start. 2. Set a timer/alarm for you to stop and zone out or take a break. 3. Try to keep a list of actions you can take instead of the one you can't start And be gentle with yourself when you enter the mental state of "I need to get up to do X now" but your brain simply won't let you. It happens and is frustrating, but don't let that feel like a failure. ADHD brains just can be very difficult sometimes. When this "stuck" feeling happens, I try to cycle through other things I could do until I eventually find on that allows my brain to let me get up. It can be as simple as deciding that I should go pet my dog.
- bodas123 6y ago
  One thing that works for me when I am “stuck”, is to make a “plan” to do the thing I want/need to do after I count down from 5. I then start counting down and when i get to 0 I stand up and do the thing. I found this trick somewhere on hn and it has worked 100% of the time (when I think of using it, that is...)
bradstewart 6y ago
I don't have ADHD (that I know of), but often struggle with the "activation" bit as well. One seemingly simple thing that's really, really helped me was a quote from Jerry Seinfeld (on the Tim Ferriss podcast): "You don't have to write, but you can't do anything else." Replace "write" with "code" or whatever you need to do. His process was to set a fixed amount of time to work (having a defined length is important), sit down, start the timer, and either write or sit and do nothing. Removing the mental pressure of "oh no I have to get this thing done" by making _doing nothing_ an acceptable outcome was huge for me. It took a few tries to actually stick to the "do nothing else" part--no HN, no phones, etc--but now I find I can dispense with distractions and get work done much more easily.

by bmer 6y ago

vcavallo 6y ago

interesting. > being aware of the activation/motivation distinction is a good first step what’s the second step? :) Do you have thoughts on adderall?

bluefirebrand 6y ago
My thoughts on adderall are: I don't think Doctor's even actually prescribe that anymore. You'd likely get a modern drug that is timed release instead.
- vcavallo 6y ago
  Point taken. I was thinking more along the lines of: any personal experience? have you found that it helps with the activation problem you're describing?
  - bluefirebrand 6y ago
    I'm not the person you originally asked, but I can give my experience. I was diagnosed with ADHD-inattentive last December, so I've been on a very low dose of what I'm told is basically just timed-release adderall for about 4 months. So far it's been positive. I find it helps me change contexts more easily and not bounce off of the new context and revert to phone scrolling. It helps me get over that activation hump more easily I think as well. One effect that I didn't anticipate is since I started on it I find I sleep better, wake up groggy less, and have an easier time getting out of bed in the morning. That's probably partly related to this: I had to cut out caffeine almost entirely because it would make my heart race. If I want coffee I can have decaf that seems ok. I can have a mug of tea but if I have two my heart is pounding. Same with soda. I used to drink a can of diet coke a day. There is caffeine free diet coke too which I have but I find I drink it much less frequently. The heart racing has been the only negative side effect I've noticed and cutting out caffeine has fixed it so overall that's probably for the best. Sorry for the snark before. I don't actually know if Adderall is prescribed anymore, it might be. When I was looking for advice on how to approach a doctor about a possible ADHD diagnosis as an adult one of the things I was told was "don't mention medication, especially not Adderall, they might think you're drug seeking. Focus on the diagnosis first, then treatment". So I reacted poorly. Sorry again.
    - lambda_tango 6y ago
      Part of amphetamine's effects include an increase in energy during the day, which helps make you tired in the evening when it wears off. Sometimes instant release (Adderrall or Dexedrine) is prescribed to supplement a time release version, particularly if you experience "the 5 o'clock crash". If your on something like Vyvanse, you might have to up the dose after months, possibly even years, as your tolerance builds. Supposedly it's possible to reach a dose that balances against your metabolism, and you won't need to increase it again. I found that, at a high enough dose, my jaw started clenching quite a bit, and I had the occasional heart murmurs. I do drink the equivalent of 3-4 cups of coffee on a regular basis. If anyone experiences those side effects, I highly recommend chelated magnesium. Worked wonders for me.
- caddemon 6y ago
  There's an extended release version of Adderall, but also even instant release Adderall is still quite common to prescribe. Compared to other psychiatric drugs discovered in the same time frame, Adderall is remarkably effective, and I think this is reflected in the relatively small amount of research that has subsequently gone into ADHD treatment. There's also of course a market of people looking for Adderall IR prescription to help them study or work. I can only really speak to what I've seen working at a hospital in the northeast US, but it seems that as of 2018 amphetamine was the most prescribed drug type for ADHD across the country, and actually going up: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6261411/#!po=21.5278 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6261411/#!po=21...

vixit 6y ago

This is what I struggle with. The activation, or executive function, is often missing with folks who have ADHD. Things that I have found which help: 1. Set a timer/alarm for you to get up and start. 2. Set a timer/alarm for you to stop and zone out or take a break. 3. Try to keep a list of actions you can take instead of the one you can't start And be gentle with yourself when you enter the mental state of "I need to get up to do X now" but your brain simply won't let you. It happens and is frustrating, but don't let that feel like a failure. ADHD brains just can be very difficult sometimes. When this "stuck" feeling happens, I try to cycle through other things I could do until I eventually find on that allows my brain to let me get up. It can be as simple as deciding that I should go pet my dog.

bodas123 6y ago
One thing that works for me when I am “stuck”, is to make a “plan” to do the thing I want/need to do after I count down from 5. I then start counting down and when i get to 0 I stand up and do the thing. I found this trick somewhere on hn and it has worked 100% of the time (when I think of using it, that is...)

bradstewart 6y ago

I don't have ADHD (that I know of), but often struggle with the "activation" bit as well. One seemingly simple thing that's really, really helped me was a quote from Jerry Seinfeld (on the Tim Ferriss podcast): "You don't have to write, but you can't do anything else." Replace "write" with "code" or whatever you need to do. His process was to set a fixed amount of time to work (having a defined length is important), sit down, start the timer, and either write or sit and do nothing. Removing the mental pressure of "oh no I have to get this thing done" by making _doing nothing_ an acceptable outcome was huge for me. It took a few tries to actually stick to the "do nothing else" part--no HN, no phones, etc--but now I find I can dispense with distractions and get work done much more easily.