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It's a consumer product. It is very draining. In today's world consumer don't want to pay for anything, unless they really want the product and they don't have

It's a consumer product. It is very draining. In today's world consumer don't want to pay for anything, unless they really want the product and they don't have a way to get it otherwise. Many users would use the product and then file chargebacks. Many users will go to any extend to get out of paying coming up with either sad stories, lies or threats. When it's a low cost, high volume product (5m+ paying customers over time) - you deal with too many of these and sometimes it's very demoralizing. I used to work for someone else in Saas and this wasn't such a big issue there. Next thing I do won't be in consumer. Some ideas where tried end to end in a week, some were run for 2 years. Did a lot of mistakes along the way.

andi999 6y ago
Thanks a lot. A few follow up question:so it is a physical product? Also are you located in the US? And last, since customer contact it is so draining, did you consider to spend one of the 20 M profit and outsoure customer service (or hire 10-20 people to take of that)?
- bootstrapper101 6y ago
  It is a digital product. I don't live in US. We do have outsourced customer service. But still I have to be aware of what the customers are complaining about. In some cases people are filing frivolous complaints to government agencies which you have to respond to. With Saas, I would go after the bad actors. With consumers the number of bad actors is endless.
  - andi999 6y ago
    For what do you spend the 30M difference between arr and profit?
neolog 6y ago
> Did a lot of mistakes along the way. What distinguished the successful attempts from the unsuccessful ones? How did you know when it was time to move on?
ZephyrBlu 6y ago
> In today's world consumer don't want to pay for anything, unless they really want the product and they don't have a way to get it otherwise Knowing this, how do you create and market your product to get people to buy? I feel like with B2B it's easier to convince people to buy purely by showing them value, whereas B2C seems more impulse driven.
- bootstrapper101 6y ago
  Think about how many non-basic need products that you know which consumers pay which is not some kind of exclusive or monopoly: Utilities, Cable, Cell phone, NetflixEtc, Uber*. Today's consumer doesn't like to pay for anything, especially if it is a digital product. They will do whatever they can to get out of paying either by pirating or trying to get a refund/chargeback after using it. Sometimes they will do an impulse buy. Which is what we were able to work for us, but then bad actors try to make your life as miserable as possible. B2B is not rosy and has its own set of issues. But I would rather kick 50 ungrateful users from the platform to their face, rather than deal with 10k ungrateful consumers.
  - throwaway11002 6y ago
    How do I identify the ungrateful ones early enough? :D
    - BackBlast 6y ago
      Anyone trying to beat you up on price or haggle tends to fit in this bucket. If they love the service the price won't be much of an obstacle.
nj999999 6y ago
What kind of consumer product? Just curious. Is the habit here to be vague for reasons of IP protection or something?
- texasbigdata 6y ago
  Why do you feel he has to disclose when he openly shared child birth struggles while you use a throw away?
philipyoungg 6y ago
May I know what your product is? I'm working on www.stayinsession.com for almost a year now. It's B2C and extremely rough. And as you said: loathe customer support for B2C.
- bootstrapper101 6y ago
  Biggest issue with customer support are: Getting customers and supporting them. Solution to both of them is making a simple product which provides incredible value which is self serve. Word of mouth will take care of the rest. Eventually build a community driven forum which will help with support.
  - tfang17 6y ago
    We've had a good experience at Eureka Surveys (also bootstrapped) hiring an offshore support team to support our 1M+ users.

andi999 6y ago

Thanks a lot. A few follow up question:so it is a physical product? Also are you located in the US? And last, since customer contact it is so draining, did you consider to spend one of the 20 M profit and outsoure customer service (or hire 10-20 people to take of that)?

bootstrapper101 6y ago
It is a digital product. I don't live in US. We do have outsourced customer service. But still I have to be aware of what the customers are complaining about. In some cases people are filing frivolous complaints to government agencies which you have to respond to. With Saas, I would go after the bad actors. With consumers the number of bad actors is endless.
- andi999 6y ago
  For what do you spend the 30M difference between arr and profit?

neolog 6y ago

> Did a lot of mistakes along the way. What distinguished the successful attempts from the unsuccessful ones? How did you know when it was time to move on?

ZephyrBlu 6y ago

> In today's world consumer don't want to pay for anything, unless they really want the product and they don't have a way to get it otherwise Knowing this, how do you create and market your product to get people to buy? I feel like with B2B it's easier to convince people to buy purely by showing them value, whereas B2C seems more impulse driven.

bootstrapper101 6y ago
Think about how many non-basic need products that you know which consumers pay which is not some kind of exclusive or monopoly: Utilities, Cable, Cell phone, NetflixEtc, Uber*. Today's consumer doesn't like to pay for anything, especially if it is a digital product. They will do whatever they can to get out of paying either by pirating or trying to get a refund/chargeback after using it. Sometimes they will do an impulse buy. Which is what we were able to work for us, but then bad actors try to make your life as miserable as possible. B2B is not rosy and has its own set of issues. But I would rather kick 50 ungrateful users from the platform to their face, rather than deal with 10k ungrateful consumers.
- throwaway11002 6y ago
  How do I identify the ungrateful ones early enough? :D
  - BackBlast 6y ago
    Anyone trying to beat you up on price or haggle tends to fit in this bucket. If they love the service the price won't be much of an obstacle.

nj999999 6y ago

What kind of consumer product? Just curious. Is the habit here to be vague for reasons of IP protection or something?

texasbigdata 6y ago
Why do you feel he has to disclose when he openly shared child birth struggles while you use a throw away?

philipyoungg 6y ago

May I know what your product is? I'm working on www.stayinsession.com for almost a year now. It's B2C and extremely rough. And as you said: loathe customer support for B2C.

bootstrapper101 6y ago
Biggest issue with customer support are: Getting customers and supporting them. Solution to both of them is making a simple product which provides incredible value which is self serve. Word of mouth will take care of the rest. Eventually build a community driven forum which will help with support.
- tfang17 6y ago
  We've had a good experience at Eureka Surveys (also bootstrapped) hiring an offshore support team to support our 1M+ users.