3 ms·

Ask HN: My character sheet makes no sense

10 points by joebadmo 15y ago

tl;dr I'm smart and capable, but have no marketable skills, so am basically unemployable. I started college right after high school in CS, but, bored out of my mind and depressed, dropped out after a year and enlisted in the Marines soon after that. During my four-year enlistment, I fought in Iraq twice, saw the West Pacific (Japan, Thailand, Guam), and got pretty good at killing people. After I got out, I went back to school on the GI Bill and got my B.A. in Comparative Literature, because I wanted to study something that would keep me engaged and interested, and I assumed I would be able to learn any technical skills (programming, which I was still interested in) on my own. Having gotten a bit older and gained a lot more discipline, I did much better in school the second time around, and raised my cumulative GPA from about 1.7 to 3.3, by maintaining almost perfect grades for those three years. I graduated in 2009, which I understand was historically the worst time to do so. I was unemployed for six months, then finally got a low level adminstrative job in the federal government through veteran's preference. I also got married and bought a house. My job is a little bit soul-killing and doesn't pay very well. But it's tolerable (I've been through a lot worse) and secure. I'm currently teaching myself to program for Android. It's fun but slow going, since my free time is limited. So slow, that I'm realizing that it probably isn't going to be more than a hobby unless I change something. So: Infantry Marine: Level 4| Comparer of Literatures: Level 4| Bureaucracy Admin: Level 2| Rock-climber: Level 6| Programmer: Level 0 My options look to me like: 1. Stay in the fed. gov. Boring, but safe. 2. Go back to school. I like academia and I'd be interested in studying CS, HCI, or IA, but I'm afraid of student loans and 'higher-education bubble' talk. And I've got a mortgage to pay. 3. Find employment in a field I enjoy. I write essays on my blog about tech and tech products. A friend of mine at a software megacorp is convinced that I'd be a good Project Manager in the sense of Joel Spolsky's User Advocate. But neither of us see a path to there from here. So my current plan is to put in my 40 hours, program Android by night, and regularly spam job listings, hoping that I'll slip through a filter somehow and be able to convince somebody I'm worth taking a chance on. Advice?

c4urself 15y ago
What do you want to be? I studied Business and ended up getting into programming instead. I keep thinking carefully analyzing my past might have had me realize i wanted to get into programming earlier: i loved computers and looked up to people who could do "computers" well etc. But in the end i'll never know, important thing is i got into it: I begged for a job at a web-dev company earning little to nothing the first three months and started learning learning learning. Like you i didn't have any educational background to go on. I'm sure there are some people on here that will give you a job if you can show that you are willing to learn and have the motivation and drive.
- joebadmo 15y ago
  Wow, thanks, that's actually pretty inspiring. Can you elaborate on how you approaced the web-dev company, and how many you approached? That was one of my first strategies, thinking that a college degree and my... unconventional background would be worth something, but I got absolutely no traction whatsoever. It was pretty discouraging. I'm a hard worker and I learn quickly, but I apparently haven't been able to convince anyone of that.
kelnos 15y ago
The huge plus here is that you have a stable 9-5 that you can at least tolerate for the present, which you can use to pay your bills. I wouldn't ditch that unless you can come up with a solid plan to keep paying the bills without it (not saying you can't; just keep that in mind). I don't really know much about becoming a project manager. If you think that's what you want to do, I imagine others will be able to steer you. As for becoming an Android dev, it seems that your limiting factor is your free time in which to learn. And yes, as you say, you're going to have to change something if you want to fix that. Of course I don't know what you're filling your free time with, but are there other things you can scale back or drop completely that will give you more time to code? That's really the thing about programming: you aren't going to get good at it without doing it, and without reading what other people have done and learning from it. If you think it might help, you can try to find and enroll in Android-focused workshops or classes. They're not for everyone, but if you feel like that might be a faster way to learn without requiring quite as much more of your free time, that might be a win. In the end: release something! Build an Android app and release it on the Market. Regardless of how many users you end up with, it's something you can say you built and can show to a prospective employer. This is just my very subjective personal opinion, but I wouldn't advise going back to school for anything computer-related. It's a huge investment in time and money, and most of this stuff you can learn on your own more efficiently... if that's what you really want to do.
- joebadmo 15y ago
  Thanks for the comment. Yes, my plan is to try to release a working app as soon as possible, but starting from scratch, it's taking a while. Enrolling in a class or workshop sounds like a great idea, I'll do some research on that and see what I can find. I think having an external enforcement mechanism/progress framework would help me a lot. I usually spend a lot of time rock-climbing, but I've been on an injury-related break, and diverting that time into programming. Other than that, just wife and 100+ year old house projects, which are not insignificant. I might have to talk to my wife about taking a few months to focus my free time completely on programming.
aeontech 15y ago
I don't have advice about mobile dev, but I can tell you that there is always an under-served niche of local businesses and artists that need web dev work done. They are under-served because they fall in the gap where they do not have the expertise required to do it themselves, nor money to hire a professional company to do it, and because most free-lancers, once they build a resume, do not bother with small projects like theirs and prefer to either get a full-time gig, or build their free-lancing career and price themselves above the range that these people can afford to pay. Which makes them easy pickings for someone like you - especially now with the proliferation of open source frameworks, e-commerce solutions (just don't use osCommerce or any of its relatives for the love of god), cms's, wikis, and what have you, which cover 99% of what a small business/art gallery/whatever requires. So, this is one way to bootstrap your resume by doing this type of gigs as a free-lancer for a year or so. It's nice side-income next to your full-time job, it builds your resume that you can demonstrate when you are next interviewing, and you get to figure things out and find solutions for people with real-world projects and problems that they need solved. Do not underestimate the value of your knowledge and skills - to most people what you do is black magic, and even though you may feel like you are a beginner (and honestly, that feeling will never go away because there's _always_ going to be more stuff to learn - see Impostor Syndrome), it is still worth money to them to use your skills and time.
phektus 15y ago
Just stick to your job for another year, and continue with your android self-study. Don't just study android, also the basics of programming and computer science, and try to apply them on android development. I know that's far too time consuming, but after a year you have more money saved (did I mention you need to save like a monk, even with family and mortgage?), and you will have more options and skills. I'm pretty sure you'll be more capable programming-wise, and some savings will make you a bit more confident during interviews. My 2 cents.

10 points by joebadmo 15y ago

c4urself 15y ago

What do you want to be? I studied Business and ended up getting into programming instead. I keep thinking carefully analyzing my past might have had me realize i wanted to get into programming earlier: i loved computers and looked up to people who could do "computers" well etc. But in the end i'll never know, important thing is i got into it: I begged for a job at a web-dev company earning little to nothing the first three months and started learning learning learning. Like you i didn't have any educational background to go on. I'm sure there are some people on here that will give you a job if you can show that you are willing to learn and have the motivation and drive.

joebadmo 15y ago
Wow, thanks, that's actually pretty inspiring. Can you elaborate on how you approaced the web-dev company, and how many you approached? That was one of my first strategies, thinking that a college degree and my... unconventional background would be worth something, but I got absolutely no traction whatsoever. It was pretty discouraging. I'm a hard worker and I learn quickly, but I apparently haven't been able to convince anyone of that.

kelnos 15y ago

The huge plus here is that you have a stable 9-5 that you can at least tolerate for the present, which you can use to pay your bills. I wouldn't ditch that unless you can come up with a solid plan to keep paying the bills without it (not saying you can't; just keep that in mind). I don't really know much about becoming a project manager. If you think that's what you want to do, I imagine others will be able to steer you. As for becoming an Android dev, it seems that your limiting factor is your free time in which to learn. And yes, as you say, you're going to have to change something if you want to fix that. Of course I don't know what you're filling your free time with, but are there other things you can scale back or drop completely that will give you more time to code? That's really the thing about programming: you aren't going to get good at it without doing it, and without reading what other people have done and learning from it. If you think it might help, you can try to find and enroll in Android-focused workshops or classes. They're not for everyone, but if you feel like that might be a faster way to learn without requiring quite as much more of your free time, that might be a win. In the end: release something! Build an Android app and release it on the Market. Regardless of how many users you end up with, it's something you can say you built and can show to a prospective employer. This is just my very subjective personal opinion, but I wouldn't advise going back to school for anything computer-related. It's a huge investment in time and money, and most of this stuff you can learn on your own more efficiently... if that's what you really want to do.

joebadmo 15y ago
Thanks for the comment. Yes, my plan is to try to release a working app as soon as possible, but starting from scratch, it's taking a while. Enrolling in a class or workshop sounds like a great idea, I'll do some research on that and see what I can find. I think having an external enforcement mechanism/progress framework would help me a lot. I usually spend a lot of time rock-climbing, but I've been on an injury-related break, and diverting that time into programming. Other than that, just wife and 100+ year old house projects, which are not insignificant. I might have to talk to my wife about taking a few months to focus my free time completely on programming.

aeontech 15y ago

I don't have advice about mobile dev, but I can tell you that there is always an under-served niche of local businesses and artists that need web dev work done. They are under-served because they fall in the gap where they do not have the expertise required to do it themselves, nor money to hire a professional company to do it, and because most free-lancers, once they build a resume, do not bother with small projects like theirs and prefer to either get a full-time gig, or build their free-lancing career and price themselves above the range that these people can afford to pay. Which makes them easy pickings for someone like you - especially now with the proliferation of open source frameworks, e-commerce solutions (just don't use osCommerce or any of its relatives for the love of god), cms's, wikis, and what have you, which cover 99% of what a small business/art gallery/whatever requires. So, this is one way to bootstrap your resume by doing this type of gigs as a free-lancer for a year or so. It's nice side-income next to your full-time job, it builds your resume that you can demonstrate when you are next interviewing, and you get to figure things out and find solutions for people with real-world projects and problems that they need solved. Do not underestimate the value of your knowledge and skills - to most people what you do is black magic, and even though you may feel like you are a beginner (and honestly, that feeling will never go away because there's _always_ going to be more stuff to learn - see Impostor Syndrome), it is still worth money to them to use your skills and time.

phektus 15y ago

Just stick to your job for another year, and continue with your android self-study. Don't just study android, also the basics of programming and computer science, and try to apply them on android development. I know that's far too time consuming, but after a year you have more money saved (did I mention you need to save like a monk, even with family and mortgage?), and you will have more options and skills. I'm pretty sure you'll be more capable programming-wise, and some savings will make you a bit more confident during interviews. My 2 cents.