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> We compete with companies founded with people that have access to clients with way more purchasing power and better supply pipeline. Your wording flipped a b

> We compete with companies founded with people that have access to clients with way more purchasing power and better supply pipeline. Your wording flipped a bit in my head. That exact wording could be said of Europe. There's a whole show and dance to make it seem like it's not, but when everything is about government grants and consortiums, it is.

nmfisher 6y ago
> Your wording flipped a bit in my head. That exact wording could be said of Europe. There's a whole show and dance to make it seem like it's not, but when everything is about government grants and consortiums, it is. Sounds very much like Australia, too.
- 0xfaded 6y ago
  Hey, I'm originally from Australia. My take is that Australia is ever so slightly better off since you don't have all the EU state support regulations to comply with. It's unbelievable how good the EU is at wasting people's time. You're also slightly higher on the VC dollars per capita.
skrebbel 6y ago
Just curious, where in Europe is doing a SaaS business "about government grants and consortiums"?
- xondono 6y ago
  Depends on the SaaS business. We are building waste management IoT devices that are deployed to the public, and making a sale easily takes 2 years and thousands of hours in compliance testing and validation.
  - skrebbel 6y ago
    And would that be different in, say, the US?
- 0xfaded 6y ago
  Even if you have a profitable SaaS business, it's common to use public funding to cover R&D, i.e. most of your software engineer salaries. Usually this will involve identifying features, getting documentation from your customers they would use the features, inventing a story about how these features will save CO2 and create export oriented jobs, and magically forgetting that you have all the inhouse competencies needed while simultaneously identifying a knowledge partner (preferably in another EU country) who can provide you with the missing knowledge. It's hard to believe it unless you've seen it. Many companies have full-time employees who do nothing but write and manage funding applications. And don't think it stops at startups. Consortiums mixing startups and established SMEs are a huge plus.
  - skrebbel 6y ago
    Yes, but where? I mean I run a SaaS in the Netherlands. I know some such subsidies exist but they're also appallingly unattractive (except a general R&D salary tax cut). Shit like "get 25k if you do a project with 2 other companies in 2 other EU countries". I'd rather focus that energy on our product and our customers, thanks. Your suggestion that "everything is about" getting these grants does not match my experience. Rather, I'd put it as, "there are some companies who'd rather hunt down grants than actually focus on their market, and they're seldomly successful". While I agree that these grants, by virtue of existing, actively discourage good entrepreneurship and thus hurt the market, I strongly disagree that you need them to succeed.

nmfisher 6y ago

> Your wording flipped a bit in my head. That exact wording could be said of Europe. There's a whole show and dance to make it seem like it's not, but when everything is about government grants and consortiums, it is. Sounds very much like Australia, too.

0xfaded 6y ago
Hey, I'm originally from Australia. My take is that Australia is ever so slightly better off since you don't have all the EU state support regulations to comply with. It's unbelievable how good the EU is at wasting people's time. You're also slightly higher on the VC dollars per capita.

skrebbel 6y ago

Just curious, where in Europe is doing a SaaS business "about government grants and consortiums"?

xondono 6y ago
Depends on the SaaS business. We are building waste management IoT devices that are deployed to the public, and making a sale easily takes 2 years and thousands of hours in compliance testing and validation.
- skrebbel 6y ago
  And would that be different in, say, the US?
0xfaded 6y ago
Even if you have a profitable SaaS business, it's common to use public funding to cover R&D, i.e. most of your software engineer salaries. Usually this will involve identifying features, getting documentation from your customers they would use the features, inventing a story about how these features will save CO2 and create export oriented jobs, and magically forgetting that you have all the inhouse competencies needed while simultaneously identifying a knowledge partner (preferably in another EU country) who can provide you with the missing knowledge. It's hard to believe it unless you've seen it. Many companies have full-time employees who do nothing but write and manage funding applications. And don't think it stops at startups. Consortiums mixing startups and established SMEs are a huge plus.
- skrebbel 6y ago
  Yes, but where? I mean I run a SaaS in the Netherlands. I know some such subsidies exist but they're also appallingly unattractive (except a general R&D salary tax cut). Shit like "get 25k if you do a project with 2 other companies in 2 other EU countries". I'd rather focus that energy on our product and our customers, thanks. Your suggestion that "everything is about" getting these grants does not match my experience. Rather, I'd put it as, "there are some companies who'd rather hunt down grants than actually focus on their market, and they're seldomly successful". While I agree that these grants, by virtue of existing, actively discourage good entrepreneurship and thus hurt the market, I strongly disagree that you need them to succeed.