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Ask HN: How do I find energy to work on hobbies after the work day ends?

• apricot13 6y ago
  Totally normal! The thing that worked most for me was not forcing myself to do something just because I think I should do it. Theres loads of things I want to do, read books, work on side projects, learn something new and play games. Accepting that I just don't have the energy to do all the things I want to do and to forgive myself for the guilt of not doing them. The minute I started (started - I'm not there yet!) I found I was actually doing more of those things because I'd taken the pressure off. I've basically decided to do what I feel like when I have spare time and to not seek perfection. Working on a side project recently and releasing it (to my mind unfinished) was a challenge but because of that that project exists and isn't on my list anymore. It had been on there for over two years. I also go to a lot of effort to prepare the tasks for myself for if the mood strikes but I don't have that initial setup energy. I might not want to read a book now but I can decide which book or game will come next when that time comes. It reduces the cognitive load and decision fatigue. Same with learning something new I have a list of things to learn and timeboxing in a small topic to an hour lets me complete the task and feel some accomplishment. Theres also that thing where if you leave a task unfinished you're more motivated to finish it another time - but that just makes me get up at 2am and go finish it..your mileage may vary. Another good thing to do is use an app like toggle to track where your hours go. I found I only really get 4 really good hours of concentration in a day so I optimise my day to do those 4 exceptional hours of work and then the other 4 I spend preparing for the next 4 hours of focus work. If I force myself to spend 8 hours working I just don't do a good enough job and I end up burnt out. I very rarely find myself watching tv anymore I realised how much stress it was adding to my life. During lockdown I've stopped watching new series and instead stick to the same few series that I know don't have any of those stressful cliffhangers which will make me watch for hours on end. I also only watch tv if I'm certain my brain is mush but I'm not sleepy. If I'm sleepy I will go to bed, maybe I'll put on an audiobook but mostly I just (aim to) go to sleep. also - write everything down - have a list of everythingggg and review it often. your brain is for thinking and doing not storing information!
• serix 6y ago
  I heard that feelings like burnout correlate with vitamin D deficiency. You can make a blood test and if it's low then you can take some from supplements and compare feelings. As for me I spotted that magnesium intake boost my energy. Checked blood before and it was not low and with taking supplements it's not high, but I feel difference in my mood, anxiety and energy. Also don't forget to talk with your doctor. Good luck!
  • tartoran 6y ago
    Vitamin B complex helps with energy as well. I take both daily just in case. The B complex is sublingual. For the rest I try to get from the diet. Also Im chronically dehydrated and I forget to drink water if it’s not at hand. I solved this by always carying water with me which resulted in no more dehydration lethargy.
  • lazyweb 6y ago
    This kind of happened to me. Dwelling mostly inside during the pandemic, I did a vitamin D blood test out of curiosity. Had critically low levels according to my doctor (something around 6, normal is between 30 - 80 AFAIK). Started taking vitamin D supplements a few months ago, and I'm subjectively feeling A LOT more motivated since. But other than that, don't beat yourself up OP. Don't let your hobbies become chores. It's OK to just take the path of least resistance during your free time.
• sdevonoes 6y ago
  > I don’t work more than maybe 8-9 hours a day on stuff that I understand most of but still have a chance to learn new things. My point is it’s not like it’s a brutal work culture at all. Work less. 5h of work a day should be enough to produce the same outcome.
• matt_s 6y ago
  Watching 3 hours of TV is perfectly fine. Lean into the binge watching. Do more of it. Find more shows you want to watch. Pile it on, watch so much you get bored and then turn it off. Then maybe just sit there. Maybe that takes a few weeks. I think there's been some research that professional/thinking jobs can be as taxing on someone as hard labor like construction. Your brain needs time to relax, decompress, and wander. You have a stable job and free time after work to do whatever you want. This is part of being human - your hierarchy of needs is mostly complete, I assume. Set all of those things aside for now (book, duolingo, web-dev, etc.) Just chill. Don't treat hobbies or recreational activities like work. The interest in them will come back to you naturally. If it doesn't then were you really that interested? Or was there some observation of others falsely creating a desire? If one of your interests is career related (web-dev), seek out time during your work day to further your career. Sneak it in if your employer won't allow it.
  • serjester 6y ago
    Strongly disagree. Watching TV is easy and numbing - before you know you’ll have a habit. Habits are hard to break. I think OP would far better advised spending 15 minutes a day on any of the hobbies he listed. If he doesn’t feel like doing it, do it anyways. Eventually he’ll have a positive habit. Some people are going to make the argument that you work hard enough, don’t “work” outside your job. Doing anything new is inherently hard though - you need to get past the initial “suck”. After some time you’ll be far better equipped to figure out if this something you actually want in your life. Don’t feel like starting something? Do it anyways. Take tomorrow off, but not today.
    • ac29 6y ago
      It seems like OP has piled intellectually intense hobbies (learning a foreign language, reading "complex" books) on top of a intellectually challenging career. Thats not going to work for most people, just like most people cant spend 12 hours a day on their career. So while maybe watching TV is a little too passive, there are lots of in between activities that might be useful: cooking, gardening, meditating, things that are reasonably mindful, but work different mental muscles than thinking about algorithms or data structures.
• Keetron 6y ago
  No, it is not normal. Find a job or work an amount of hours that will not leave you spend at the end of the day.
• LockAndLol 6y ago
  Best thing I did was to reduce my work hours. Went from 40h contract to 32h and it has been a great improvement. The first month I spent gaming, but now my projects advance more quickly. At least one whole day can be dedicated to my projects. Also, a day off a week is 52 days of holiday a year. If you are able to, I recommend it wholeheartedly.
• ElectricMind 6y ago
  Why you feel need to do more? It is because society told you story of "hustle hustle till you die"? When was the last time you took walk in nature? When was the last time you lay down on grass on night and watch stars? When was the last time you played sports? When was the last time you volunteer for something? When was the last time you called someone after long time and check if they okay? When was the last time you watched bird fly in V shape? I mean I understand you but sometimes not every seconds needs to be inside "utility function". Again you need strip out every assumption, belief about life that society has inscribed on your mind. Trust me, you will feel the same once you become Google CEO too. There is no "this is enough" point in future.
  • thepiratesailor 6y ago
    Excellent point. We are forced to slave by news, parents, schools and college, etc. Promising that one day we'll be movie Gods and millionaires. But we won't and we are slowly learning that and we are very pissed. Life is more than just career. It is about enjoying too.
  • leokennis 6y ago
    Well said. I’m productive at work 9 hours a day. I sleep 8 hours a day. I do household work 2 hours a day. I raise kids 2-3 hours a day. The remaining 2-3 hours are mine, I don’t want to spend them being productive. I just want to take a shower, read a book, browse Reddit or watch old episodes of Top Gear.
• nottorp 6y ago
  You don't describe hobbies tbh. You describe learning activities that you imposed on yourself. The definition of a hobby is something that you do because it's fun, not for some self improvement goal. You don't seem to enjoy exercising either from how you describe it. Drop all and try some fun activities instead, until you find one that you actually like. That should clean up your brain.
• mcv 6y ago
  I used to be an avid reader. These days I just fall asleep when trying to read a book. For other hobbies (roleplaying games and board games mostly) I do manage to make time, but they require some planning and commitment that they didn't need when I was younger. Computer games go through cycles where they feel pointless and then become more interesting in. The game I once started writing over a decade ago hasn't been worked on for years.
• RHSman2 6y ago
  The things I do in life are the things I love. Find yours without beating up yourself about the ones that fail.
• brudgers 6y ago
  None of these sound much like hobbies. Self-improvement is not a hobby. I mean building websites might be a hobby. Just not when it is "to teach myself web development." There's nothing wrong with learning in your spare time in lieu of a hobby. Indeed it's good. Even better if you recognize that's what you are doing. And best when you realize that there is no rush. No deadline. Getting older improves pattern matching. Sometimes you will read voraciously. Other times there will be GTA-V and the South Park back catalog...so to speak. You've got the rest of your life to finish that book. Hopefully it's Knuth. But TikTok is ok in the now. Good luck.
• COil 6y ago
  Hello, that's simple... do it before starting your job. Must read: "Miracle morning by Al Elrod". And use a habit tracker to be steady.
• godshatter 6y ago
  I would look at it from a habit forming perspective. I would suggest reading the book "The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do In Life" by Charles Duhigg. How we form habits and how we can change them is fascinating reading on it's own. This book takes a more scientific approach to understanding habit formation than other books of this sort tend to do. Read the book or just read up on the cue, routine, reward loop and how it can be hacked to change habits or form new ones. The author also goes into detail about how to build up your willpower, which will also help immensely. You've probably formed habits that have been reinforced over time that are detrimental to your goal of working on hobbies. This book can help change that.
• goporolo 6y ago
  sure
• platty 6y ago
  Coffee
• peter_d_sherman 6y ago
  I spent 20+ years in the corporate world as a programmer, and I had this very same problem... I experimented with every known sleeping pattern, every known diet, every known exercise regimen, every known pattern of time-management, etc. Or, at least it sure felt like that to me... In the end, none of those things solved the problem -- though I tried very very hard to make each of them work... You see, what it all boils down to is simply this: "A man cannot have two masters". Your work is one master, your hobbies are the other, if they are not aligned, if you are not doing what you'd like to be doing at work, then you are being ripped apart by two masters; two things which compete for your time... If work de-energizes you, and your hobbies energize you, then you need to change jobs and bosses -- such that you can do what you want to do, and not what you feel is a drag. This may mean taking a significant pay cut, to get a job where you can do things closer to what you'd like to be doing, closer to your hobbies... If that's an issue for you, then I don't want to hear any more -- you've already consigned yourself to a prison cell, and if you say "I don't want to take a pay cut" -- then that way of thinking basically locks the door on your prison cell -- and throws away the key. (The key to solving this problem, incidentally, is to get out a piece of paper, and, with respect to change, write down the things you are inflexible about (for many people this will be salary), and write down the things you are flexible about, then, while looking at this set of two lists, and using the things you are flexible about, you'll be able to figure out a better solution than what you've got going currently. The key is flexibility!) The best solution, is a job where your interests align to exactly what that employer wants. The second best solution is getting your current employer to cut your hours, for example, if you could meet all of your financial obligations by working say, only a 4 or 5 hour day, then this would add a ton of time and energy to you when you get home (or you could use the extra time for an afternoon catnap for more energy, or what-have-you). If your employer can't or won't do that -- then you need a different, more-flexible employer... Salary be damned... Or you can stay locked-in and burned-out for the rest of your life, until your 401K matures... Your choice... Look, I've been there, so I completely sympathize, but you have to understand something, and that is that your experience in life now is the result of your choices and only your choices. If you want something different in life, if you want change, then: Make a different choice...
• giantg2 6y ago
  I think it's normal. I rarely have motivation to do stuff after work. I tend to just push myself to do stuff, which ends up sucking the fun out of it. I think it mostly stems from being discontent with my job - I see people with higher pay, interesting problems, respect, etc. I feel like I'm just treading water and have no career options, but am required to support my family. I figure I'll have a major cardiovascular event in the next decade and it won't be my problem anymore - persist until you don't exist.
• Priem19 6y ago
  Work less. I realize one can't just go up to their employer and say “I'm gonna work 3/4 or 1/2 now.” And it depends on how far above or below your means you live. However, we need to get people talking about this. Don't live to work, work to live. Unless you've hit the jackpot and do something you love getting up for in the morning.
• klambda 6y ago
  Don't seek motivation and how-to answers. Those will only get you going for so long and you will revert back to your old behaviors. If you are serious with your inquiry, you will examine yourself and seek the truth - to understand why you are not driven to pursue the things you say you want to pursue. And a solution will emerge. As for the one who has true desire, there is no choice but to pursue the thing he desires and to do them as if life dependent on them; as if there was no tomorrow.
• oriel 6y ago
  I personally need to feel the progress on whatever my hobby is at the moment. Currently, i've been working on a side project for months now, but i remember it took me years to get started. The essence of how i did start was to take a weekend, bang out a basic proof of concept that had occurred to me, then over time add to it, even in small ways. fix a bug here, add a view there, model data this way, etc. It's less about energy and more about motivation. Some people would say discipline, but if you're exhausted, you're exhausted, and to push harder would only damage your resolve (IMO). It's an emotional energy thing more than physical energy, so in combination with other suggestions on here (like do it in the morning not the evening), take some time (off or the weekend, etc) to get momentum on a hobby or project (dev env setup takes at minimum a day in many cases), and then put in tiny steps or amounts of energy over time. You'll be surprised how far you can go once you're moving.
• delvaux 6y ago
  I don't have any hobbies and it's ok, I think.
• thehappypm 6y ago
  I think the problem here is that your side projects aren't really that fun. It's not that fun to read a complicated, dense book. It's not that fun to learn a language, in fact it's one of the hardest things for your brain. It's not that fun to make a personal web site that's basically going to end up being a LinkedIn profile. For me, I do have a side hobby. I built a tool to make grids of peoples' photos into posters that I sell on Etsy, things like people's photos of them visiting each national park. It's a weird hobby but the fact that I'm actually selling something was a big motivator for me. I love making sales -- even though I've done less than $100 total so far.
  • dencodev 6y ago
    This is something I've come to learn as I get older. I used to beat myself up over all the stuff I thought I should be doing with my spare time but didn't. Then I realized - if I'm not doing it and I don't feel motivated to do it, then it's probably not actually that important to me. I make decent money. A lot less than all the FAANG engineers here, but still probably double the national average. I can't afford a house in the major city I live in and not sure I ever will but I'm comfortable and just trying to enjoy my life at this point.
• kodah 6y ago
  First I would say that just because you hear about a number of engineers that are hobbyist programmers after work doesn't mean it's commonplace. It's just commonly talked about and can be beneficial. The majority of engineers I interview for leadership positions are not hobbyist programmers. It's also taxing. I am one of these people. I don't have responsibilities in my life outside of work, so I have infinite time to do what I want. That also means I have less time to do what others want, which makes making friends outside of programming and other demanding careers difficult. Additionally, it requires a myriad of maturity processes; you will have to learn to flip a switch of perspective between work code and hobby code so as to maintain a healthy separation. Hobby code should be fun at the end of the day, or it's not a hobby anymore. I've learned to decompress hard rather than gradually. I'll go ride my bike and push myself for an hour, I'll soak in the tub, and then pick up my journal that has all the notes from my hobby code in it. I do not buy into extended work activities any more. I lead development teams, but I started cutting out all extracurricular activities at work so as to reserve my time for me. Understand that even with people at work you are bound by a contract, by all means fulfill that contract but don't give things to a profit machine for free. This significantly cut down the energy-spending-spin-cycle I found myself in at work. I'm a person that's happy to help people to learn and grow, but if I make myself too available I spread myself so thin that I make no room for me. Hope this helps.
• lcall 6y ago
  Life balance and having purpose are key to everything. I use an acronum "pvsgeer" for purpose/vision/strategy/goals/empowerment/execution/review/revise/report/repeat (or a subset of that, depending), to help keep myself on track and know why I am doing things. I don't recommend going without healthy amounts of sleep or pushing oneself beyond healthy capacity. Yes, we grow by stretching and pushing, that's not quite what I mean. I have CFS now and one of my top few ideas as to the cause was pushing too hard for years without enough sleep (seems like many famous people got less sleep, so I was determined; but the cause of CFS is really still unknown). If motivation is really the issue, there are other HN threads with that in their title. (at least on duckduckgo one can do a title search for a site, I believe.) And sometimes ... I have had to learn the hard rule that we have to be patient, we just can't do all that we want to do in the timeframe we want (hence the prioritization by purpose etc, per above). But I believe life does not end at death and we can continue to learn, grow, and progress, which helps tremendously for me to not worry about the things I can't do right now. All the best to you!
• halfjoking 6y ago
  I take a nap. Taking a one hour nap after work seems to reset my brain. It's probably not for everyone. Also your 'personal website' project seems lame. Build a SaaS startup and get customers - providing a potentially useful service will give you purpose more than a website that doesn't matter if anyone visits.
• frombody 6y ago
  You might be underestimating how taxing exercise is on the body and if you're doing this after work, it's natural to need recover time, not using your body, even if most of the work is mental. See if you can shift your workouts to the morning. You'll start the day refreshed and the workday is natural recover time. After work you will have time and energy and even take a nap if you please.
• HomeDeLaPot 6y ago
  Wow, your situation sounds a lot like mine. Personal site and Duolingo. Except I definitely need more exercise.
• tmaly 6y ago
  Your willpower is limited, so work on your stuff first thing in the morning. This may mean going to bed earlier. I recommend making a plan the night before. Even breaking things down into small tasks. The Pomodoro Technique is super helpful when you need to get some momentum and just plow through stuff. Also check out the book Mini Habits by Stephen Guise. It is a great technique for building momentum.
• achempion 6y ago
  Listen, I found out how to solve this problem and it sort of works for me. Two steps. First, think about what exactly you want to do and why it's important to you. Dedicate real time to think about it without distractions. Example can be, you want to learn French. Imagine you never learn French in your lifetime, is it ok? Why not? Try to approach motivation from many angles to understand is it yours or you want to do it because of some sort of advertisement (social media, YouTube and so on). Second, think about you daytime. What you spend you time on and how much energy each action takes. Then ask yourself, what you can do to dedicate your focus on thinks that really matter to you? It's all about taking time, asking right questions to yourself, questioning established routines/thinking patterns.
• bklynate 6y ago
  I lie to myself... I say I'll work on this thing for just 30mins... It gives me a quick out because after 30mins I can say at LEAST I did 30mins... which you figure will compound over time. But normally, I tend to say 30mins and end up spending +1hrs.. so yea.. lie to yourself a bit
• p0d 6y ago
  It is hard to master living in the moment. It sounds like you are exasperating yourself. As in beating yourself up unnecessarily. Enjoy today more and double/triple/quadruple your expectation of when you will get non-work stuff done. I have wasted many hours and holidays on meaningless projects. Now I would rather go for a good walk :-)
• mixmastamyk 6y ago
  Make sure you are eating well, cut back on caffeine, and get enough sleep. A twenty minute power nap has been useful to me when I'm pooped. Other folks had good suggestions as well, no need to repeat.
• lrvick 6y ago
  I realized I was not having enough time/energy to work on personal projects and this is a big part of my happiness. I switched to consulting work so I could dedicate a week a month to work on non paying open source work that makes me happy.
• forgotmypw17 6y ago
  I couldn't figure it out. There's only so much programming juice I have per day/week/month/year/lifetime, and when I was spending all day writing crappy low-quality software which would never last more than a year or two, very little was left for my personal work. So I stopped... Little by little, one at a time, I reduced my upkeep expenses, until I could reduce my paid work, first to part-time, then to nothing! These days, I live completely off my personal work. Doing it the fregan way, I accept no direct financial contribution, and instead accept housing, Internet access, web hosting, etc. from supporters. I can't say it was a comfortable transition, but I've made other transitions in my life before, and those were not easy either. I had some guidance, which I didn't always follow well, and I was still able to do it. I would recommend this route to anyone with a clear goal in mind and predisposed to spiritual, meditative, minimal, ascetic, and slow lifestyle.
  • david_allison 6y ago
    I'd be interested in hearing more about this. How did you start out? What was the hardest challenge?
    • forgotmypw17 6y ago
      I started out by DECIDING that making QUALITY software, as well as spending TIME with PEOPLE who matter to me, is infinitely more important than "professional development". I was lucky to have already had a taste of both, and how much more FULFILLING they were. The hardest challenge was probably giving up my deeply held BELIEFS that "financial independence" was mandatory, and that depending on others (without paying them money) was somehow shameful, cowardly, or otherwise undesirable. In reality, it has formed the foundation of the best relationships I've got. Another huge obstacle I was able to overcome was LISTENING to and learning particular useful skills or knowledge from people whom I did not agree with or want to become like. It's easy to want to learn from and follow follow someone who seems hugely successful. I found it challenging to even notice or pay attention to, let alone try to learn from someone I did not admire or want to become like. Yet most of my USEFUL knowledge, laboriously skimmed and filtered, came from people on the FRINGE: lonely divorcees, poor elderly people, criminals, drug addicts, homeless, travelers, outdoorsies, etc. My journey would be much more difficult without them. On the other hand, most things I learned about Elon Musk and Berkshire, in part due to the broken telephone effect, have been useless. I've learned that the most valuable knowledge to be found is firsthand or secondhand, everything past that is of questionable truth. In case it's not clear, I'm not suggesting shooting up heroin or becoming a criminal. But I learned a lot about living minimally from them. Their lifestyle is of forced minimalism, and they're very good at it, or they don't survive. As you can see, much of it was in my head. The actual physical changes were a piece of cake in comparison, believe it or not.
• bodas123 6y ago
  I had the same problem and switched from trying to learn in the evening to doing it in the morning before work. It is the time I have the most energy and a half hour/hour a day adds up!
• langfo 6y ago
  You haven't mentioned your age. It could be good to get a blood test. When my wife was pregnant with twin girls I was always feeling wiped out, a blood test revealed my I had low thyroid hormone levels. A tablet a day has fixed that. Are you able to do some of your project work at work. Included in this is building an internal web based application for your customers/users, automating things. I built things at work and home while learning the Java Spring Framework for example. I also worked on stuff during my commute on the bus to and from work. I find I have to stop working on a computer by 9pm or I won't sleep that night. There's heaps of things I can't get done in a day or put off as I'm too tired. Trying to reduce TV consumption and social media consumption can help!
• morty_s 6y ago
  Prioritize what you want to do/work on. Too tired at 11pm? Splice that time onto the front of your day to get a couple hours in before work. Put yourself first. People find/make time for the things they want to do (for their hobbies). Hobbies are typically enjoyed, if you’re not enjoying things, try something else? I have a dozen books I’m “currently reading.” Sometimes I finish three or four books while still only 20 pages into another. Reading also compounds (the more you read, the more you can read—and understand). Maybe a good audio book for you would be Atomic Habits. Maybe you can start with doing something you enjoy for just 10-20minutes a day, consistently. Consistency compounds.
• bmer 6y ago
  In my case, it turned out to be ADHD, which is far more nuanced than people make it out to be. For a person to do something, there are two components: 1) motivation, and 2) activation. Activation is how "easy" it is to get going. Activation has an aspect of mental state to it, and an aspect of engineering (e.g. many dark design patterns work by reducing the activation needed to do what the designer wants you to). People with ADHD need much more activation than the usual person to get going. So, a common refrain is "I must be lazy, because I can't bring myself to do the things I care about". Once an ADHD person is over the activation hump though, they face a different challenge: stopping. Stopping in a timely fashion is necessary for good health (need to sleep, and eat), and consistent progress (doing a little bit every day is much better than "a lot" one day in two months). But, whether you have ADHD or not, don't discount the impact of the $$$ spent engineering various services so that they require as little activation as possible. I'm not yet sure what the solution to this is, but I think being aware of the activation/motivation distinction is a good first step to eventually reaching a solution.
  • vcavallo 6y ago
    interesting. > being aware of the activation/motivation distinction is a good first step what’s the second step? :) Do you have thoughts on adderall?
    • bluefirebrand 6y ago
      My thoughts on adderall are: I don't think Doctor's even actually prescribe that anymore. You'd likely get a modern drug that is timed release instead.
      • vcavallo 6y ago
        Point taken. I was thinking more along the lines of: any personal experience? have you found that it helps with the activation problem you're describing?
        • bluefirebrand 6y ago
• loopz 6y ago
  8-9 hours of mind numbing work every day will be 8-9 hours of demotivation. Also you've reached efficiency cap by 4-6 hours. You'll find many variations of normal, though this may warrant studies.
• tasogare 6y ago
  > How do you find the motivation to do the things you genuinely enjoy, when you’re too wiped out to do them? You should question if you really are enjoying those things or rather pretend to. If you were really enjoying them you wouldn’t ask how to get started doing them (which is procrastination) but would do anyway. My solution would be to take some real rest (i.e. a nap and no TV) before doing anything else.
• swapsCAPS 6y ago
  Ensure proper nutrition when exercising and don't push yourself too hard. Completely know this feeling btw. Guilty next day etc. Will depend a lot on the person, but for me a big part was eating and drinking more. Always check with a healthcare professional. I am not one of those.
• BrianB 6y ago
  It seems to me like all of your hobbies are highly analytical. Maybe try making art or playing an instrument to relax your mind instead of trying to read another book or learn a new language in your down time.
  • tartoran 6y ago
    Yes, I find that this resonates with me as well. I find it like giving a part of my brain a break when doing a hobby, and in my case painting it is. And playing instruments, I altetnate between the two. At some point after doing this one would replenish the analytical power and feel like doing analytical work again
• nightowl_games 6y ago
  I work a lot. And work out a lot. And read. Honestly I'm powered by pain. You said you are embarassed of yourself. Your not embarrassed as much as I am when I do that. When I fail my goals I am filled with such powerful emotions.... First it is depression, but then the depression turns to anger, then I harness the anger into a laser beam and do really hard things like get up at 6am to work on a side project before work, or go on a long run, or do something else hard. After a long period of depression a few years ago, I started running. I had never done this before. The first few runs I would have negative, depressing self talk, like how I am failing to live up to my potential and will probably continue to fail because life is hard and what's the point. Then after a few weeks I began to have self respect. The self talk was positive. Then after a few months the self talk turned to rage. An angry father figure archetype in my head yelling at me for every mistake. While running one day, I realized: the self talk doesn't matter. All that matters is that I don't quit. It doesn't matter how you feel, it matters what you do. It doesn't matter that you don't want to get up earlier, it just matters if you do it. It doesn't matter if your not motivated if you just don't quit. For me, I put myself through painful things because not doing that is more painful. I hold myself to a high standard and am hard on myself when I don't achieve my goals. Bright light. Dark shadow. Over the past decade of this, I have bounced between the poles of this spectrum: highly motivated, working a lot, and irritable, arrogant... Unmotivated, weak, tired, bored, kind... At this point I have learned to navigate and manipulate my emotional state such that I am stable over a long term. The place where you are in, to me, has one clear solution: rage. Internally focused anger has always brought me out of depression. It is not something I choose, it arises slowly over long periods of failure. Many people who fail for a long time will let their anger spill out into the world, wasting their only chance to change themselves. Instead, you must keep the target of your rage on yourself, the part of you that has failed and will continue to fail. Your better than him, aren't you?
  • muffinman26 6y ago
    This used to work for me, but there is a limit to how much rage can help. As an adult, the anger only seems to lead to an endless cycle of pain and burnout. It's too easy for me to fall into the cycle of: "Oh, you're in pain, you should try harder, you're weak, pathetic, and useless." -> Try even harder. -> Debilitating injury -> Tiny bit of progress towards recovery. -> "Come on, you're a total weakling, you shouldn't have taken a break, work harder." -> Injure self again. I haven't figured out how to fix this cycle. It was much easier before lockdown when I had external feedback (gym buddies, etc.) on what was just cowardice and what was actually pushing myself too hard.
• jmfldn 6y ago
  Sorry to hear. I've felt like this at times too. A couple of thoughts... 1. I think it's normal yeah. Social media and advertising make us think everyone else is a super achiever but that's mainly nonsense. Us modern humans are over-stimulated mentally to an extent that would have been unrecognisable to our ancestors. We're not adapted to be thinking, talking, reading, studying, watching things all day. It would be exhausting to not sit down all day right? The mind isn't so different. Find ways to enjoy doing nothing. Could be meditation, gentle slow yoga, listening to some quiet music, nothing too mentally taxing. Your mind needs time to idle and reset, it's almost like your mind's 'garbage collection" kicks in and clears out the junk. It can't be processing all the time. Take time for being, it's incredibly restorative. 2. I'm a big believer in hobbies. As a father of two very young children my time is limited to I rely on the little and often approach. Don't knock the power of small daily incremental practice. I've made good progress with programming and piano in this way from very little time. 3. Doing non "thinking" hobbies is also important to me. I'm a bit addicted to over-thinking (like many of us I suspect) and something like piano is a counterforce to that. Find fun hobbies that you do for the pure intrinsic joy. 4. Assuming like many of us you're a covid home worker, don't knock the massive effect this has had. All of my colleagues seem to be feeling burnout to one degree or another. Again self care and self compassion are key here. 5. Check in with your doctor. You might have a deficiency, maybe you have a bit of low lying depression or something like that. Very common in both cases but it's good to seek help just to eliminate these things.
  • blaser-waffle 6y ago
    > 4. Assuming like many of us you're a covid home worker, don't knock the massive effect this has had. All of my colleagues seem to be feeling burnout to one degree or another. Again self care and self compassion are key here. This has been a trend I've noticed with all of my friends who are work-at-home due to COVID. Everyone is pretty fried and feeling heavy burnout. I was 100% remote before COVID and even though my work life hasn't changed I'm still feeling it as well, both due to not having places to go (gym, bar, theater, etc), as well as just via secondhand stress; e.g. the boss is burnt and takes it out on you.
• dorkwood 6y ago
  I think it's normal. Even highly productive people go through slumps where they can barely muster the strength to stare at the screen, let alone get any actual work done. My secrets for regaining some of that strength at the end of a work day: - Work on things that interest you. Sounds simple, but a lot of people screw this one up. They'll work on things they think they're supposed to be working on, or they'll brainstorm the most lucrative ideas they can think of and work on those. For most people, this kills motivation. Give yourself a treat and work on that thing you're curious about but that other people think is a waste of time. - Drink a sugary beverage. This one runs counter to all modern dietary advice, but was my secret technique for a good number of years. Next time you have an idea you want to work on but it feels impossible to focus, try downing a can of soda. Thank me later. - Create a productivity playlist. This was my other secret technique. This can be as simple as a single album that you leave on repeat while you work. Doesn't matter if it has lyrics or whatever. Just needs to be something that your brain is extremely familiar with. If you do this often enough, listening to that music can help you get back in the zone when you're out of it. - Finally, go easy on yourself. Peaks and troughs are common. If you're in a trough, give yourself space to relax and do nothing, and have faith that the motivation will return one day soon.
  • madamelic 6y ago
    I like this list so I'll add one I've adopted recently & seems to be working. - Small victories. Rather than jumping immediately to your big giant task, build up to it with small victories. Brush your teeth, wipe down the counters, something small that's quick to do. While I do this, I remind myself "small victories". I build up a few of these (make the bed, brush my teeth, clean up the kitchen) then move onto my computer tasks for the day. If I am feeling defeated, I start back at small victories: put the dog leash away, clean off my desk, etc. Definitely hokey and weird, but it's all about momentum and building up activation energy (stealing from another post).
    • huge87 6y ago
      Not hokey at all. It's basically a Kaizen approach to your personal life. "Take small steps/actions", or something like that. Works for me. I have to be very careful about how I expend my energy, while being aware that many things demand my effort. So everything gets broken down into pieces, and no piece is too small. I'm getting into Lego as a hobby, and if I'm too tired I'll just do a step. It may or may not lead to more, but there it is. I like sim racing too, so if I'm too tired to race, I'll boot up the sim and do a few practice laps. Or just one, whatever.
• sneak 6y ago
  Most creative types only have 3-5 hours (max) of deep focus time possible each day. The rest is spent on less deep work: documentation, meetings, communication, overhead, personal chores, errands, et c. Some, like me, are lucky to get 3h per day even with the help of large doses of caffeine, which has its own set of side-effects. It is possible and even likely that you are using up all of your focus time each day on your day job. Also, for a lot of people, this quantity reduced a lot over the last few months or half year: it’s been a long and stressful and uncertain year, full of unexpected sacrifices for everyone in society, to varying degrees. It’s okay to feel exhausted and drained given the circumstances of the pandemic. PS: duolingo isn’t a good way to learn a language even if you somehow manage to be super-diligent about using it.
  • vaylian 6y ago
    > PS: duolingo isn’t a good way to learn a language even if you somehow manage to be super-diligent about using it. I guess it depends on someone's personality. I heard people complain about it, but I've had good experiences with it. It really helped me, because it automates parts of the learning process, including spaced repetition. Duolingo by itself won't be enough to get to fluency. But it's a cheap and convenient way to get a foundation. If Duo doesn't work for the OP then they probably need to look for something else.
• pjivers 6y ago
  Step 1: - Go to bed early and get enough sleep [For me this is the most important point] - Drink enough water - Eat a balanced diet - Cut back on processed sugar - Cut back on caffeine (or completely stop) - Exercise, but don't overdo it if you want to save some energy for projects - Block yourself from wasting time on social media - Limit your consumption of "news" - Cut out TV - Lastly, if you haven't taken time off work in a while, take a week or so off Step 2: - Reevaluate
  • jhrozek 6y ago
    Nice list, that's pretty much what I've been doing. Especially limiting "news" (I would also emphasize their "quality" with quotes..) and social media. I feel so much better since I quit twitter, for some reason it feels just like a giant pit of awfulness. The only two things I'd add or say differently is that a) this helps (or at least helped me) not to be more productive, but just in general happier. Being happier brought more energy which in turn means just doing more things, or just other things. The other thing (b) is, with the exception of social media which I outright quit, I'm not strict with limiting or rather going over limit with some of the negative things on your list. Do I feel like eating cake after lunch and having my third coffee after dinner? OK, as long as it doesn't become an everyday habit, I just do it..
  • madamelic 6y ago
    >- Eat a balanced diet >- Cut back on processed sugar >- Cut back on caffeine (or completely stop) --- Not everyone processes food the same, even normally functioning bodies will have different responses to the same foods. Absolutely you should target healthy food and I would discourage anyone from eating cheeseburgers every day, but if salad makes you feel like crap: don't eat salad. There is no one most optimal way to eat. You need to learn and feed your body what it needs (and occasionally wants). Your productivity will (probably) not plummet because you caved and ate a cheeseburger for lunch. Neither will productivity cave because you had a bottle of Coke. I've been wearing a continuous glucose monitor (not diabetic, just curious) for the past few weeks and I've noted that some "healthy" meals are actually worse blood sugar wise than "bad" meals. McD's cheeseburger: pretty steady blood sugar. Small bowl of granola (not the shitty sugary kind): stupid huge spike.
• 0x008 6y ago
  > It’s embarrassing That is the problem right here. Stop beating yourself up. Everybody is lazy. All these people having sideprojects make 90% of a months progress on 1 weekend or a single day they have off from work. For me it helped to spend less time on HN. Regarding hobbies: They should be fun first and foremost. Don't focus on the progress. Focus on having an easy and relaxing time.
• hrnnnnnn 6y ago
  Go to bed earlier, get up earlier, and do your hobbies before you start work when you have maximum energy.
• alexpetralia 6y ago
  Easier said that done during a pandemic, but for me, the trick is to get out of the house. If I work in a public space - say a tea shop or a cafe (some of which are open in the evenings) - I tend to work. If I stay home, I tend to lounge.
  • yellowapple 6y ago
    This is my usual trick for staying productive during remote jobs. Unfortunately didn't help much for the pandemic, lol Trick I'm using for my current job is that I carved out a part of my living room dedicated to work, so that my brain can associate that particular desk with getting things done despite associating the rest of my apartment with chores and slacking. Took awhile to adjust, but it seems to be working out.
• mlonkibjuyhv 6y ago
  You're already doing light exercises which was part of the solution for me. The next step is a bad one - you actually have to turn the television off, it won't do it for you. I think also you may be a bit overwhelmed by all the things you feel you should be doing, to the point you don't want to do any of them. So try to forget about them for a while. Take walks in your neighborhood. Try to notice something that has changed, or is still the same. In a few weeks maybe the mood will strike to have a cup of tea, and do some reading. Maybe not, maybe next week you'll learn something new.
  • em-bee 6y ago
    i learned to control my TV habits by planning what i want to watch in advance. when the new TV guide came out i would mark every show that i wanted to watch, and then i followed that schedule and turned the TV on only for those shows and nothing else. now that i can choose when to watch things, i pick the shows i follow, and when i have time for tv i just take an episode of these shows, ignoring everything else.
• domano 6y ago
  I have the same problem and manage to conquer it with 3 strategies: 1. Acknowledge that passive media consumption is actually not that interesting to me and just turn off the TV. Or when watching TV sometimes look at tutorials etc for the technologies you are trying to learn. If you find a good teacher this can be very entertaining too. 2. Have 2 Projects - 1 is permanent and the thing you actually want to achieve. The other is dynamic, meaning you can just switch to something else if you feel like exploring a new technology. 3. Give talks on some basic topics. Expectations are not high, but you are forced to learn it so that you can prepare the talk in time. Also this is very rewarding and efforts are very predictable.
• taffronaut 6y ago
  Do hobbies have to be successful? IMHO the time is for restoring your sense of well-being. There are loads of happy (but terrible) amateur artists, musicians, dancers, DJs, woodworkers, model-makers, novelists, photographers, Wordpress website builders, RPi hobbyists, medieval French students. Everywhere is full of half-assembled or half-disassembled clocks, airbrush compressors, and that PDP-11 someone planned to restore and it's fine. The website and the book have successfully distracted you from the TV for a while. Now they're making you feel bad. That's not the function of a hobby. Maybe it's time to find something else.
• xenopticon 6y ago
  Two things that worked well for me: 1. Work on your hobbies _before_ your actual work (or when you feel rested the most). Don't spend all of your "prime time" in your job. In the morning, when I am rested and focused, I dedicate the first one or two hours of the day to work on my things. Of course this pushes my schedule and I finish work later, but at the end it feels like an accomplished day. There's no feeling of guilt because you "only worked on your job". This of course only applies if you have a flexible job. 2. You cannot do everything at once. I had very similar goals as you in the beginning of the year. I was trying to write posts for my blog, learn my partner's language, study for the Terraform associate exam, and exercise daily. All combined with a moderately demanding job. We simply cannot have that many things in our buffer. Try to focus on what's more urgent or important for you. Do one or two things at a time.
  • deleted 6y ago
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  • sloaken 6y ago
    Great point about the hobbies. Too many people are tied to the clock for when to do things. Get up at 6, go to work at 7, be home by x. Time is relative. I plan to now switch my clock to do my hobbies first. Thanks for the suggestion.
    • tubularhells 6y ago
      Remote work is a blessing. I don't miss the office, not the commute.
  • 100011_100001 6y ago
    This is the correct answer. The number of hours you can be productive is limited. Frontload your hobbies before work. Interestingly enough you won't underperform at work as much as you would think. For me it used to be work 100%, hobbies 0-10%. By frontloading my hobbies and doing them first, it's now work 90%, hobbies 90%. A good net gain. At the same time my happiness has increased by a good 20%, because as you know, no one feels great watching TV for 3 hours. The reason why this works is, if you work like a semi-normal human even if you are tired you will do the thing. However hobbies, being "optional" you will skip. By flipping things around you still have that push to perform well at work, so it stays relatively the same. By the way, with kids, frontloading becomes even more important. Edit: I try to have 5 main todos every day. 1 work, 4 hobbies. It averages out to about 11 hours (work being 8). I use my "hour" of lunch to play guitar, which is another hobby of mine, but it's the only time I can squeeze it in.
• mujina93 6y ago
  It's amazing and fascinating how many diverse explanations and personal narratives are present in all the answers. It shows how difficult it is to diagnose something as common and relatable as the situation described here.
  • jmfldn 6y ago
    Looking at the answers there're definitely a lot of common trends. But yes, I see your point. Part of the problem is separating the pure productivity question ie how to fit in hobbies, vs asking whether the question itself points to deeper issues around health, excessive pressure to achieve and so on.
• wideareanetwork 6y ago
  Do your stuff in the morning, before work. Give your job second best, give yourself your freshest morning hours. Go to bed early.
• MrRiddle 6y ago
  Well, you work too much. At least in Europe, 40 hour work week includes having lunch, going to bathroom, water cooler small talk and similar. If you’re productive for 8-9 hours a day, you’re effectively working more that full time, and that’s where your energy goes away.
  • em-bee 6y ago
    last i checked lunch break was in addition to the 40 hours of work.
    • MrRiddle 6y ago
      As I said, in Europe, it’s included in 40 hours. And in general, even in US, people don’t work 40 hours productively.
      • hedoluna 6y ago
        Sorry, but lunch is not included in the 40 hours. At least in Italy.
        • AstralStorm 6y ago
          Neither is it in Poland. The computer breaks totalling 15 minutes a day are.
      • pgsandstrom 6y ago
        Not true for Sweden and Norway.
      • tartoran 6y ago
        Its true, as a software developer its impossible to have 40 productive hours a week every week of the year and its normal that way. But most people learn to look busy when workload is low.
      • em-bee 6y ago
        maybe you are thinking of places that have a 35 hour work week? with an hour lunchbreak that adds up to 40. but that doesn't include lunch time in the work time because the nominal worktime per contract is actually specified as 35 hours of work.
• firedating 6y ago
  I think if you have intrinsic motivation to work on your hobbies, it won't feel like work and you will find a way (unless you are actually extremely exhausted - then the fix is to rest). 'I feel like I’m missing that spark' sounds like you don't believe that working on that project is beneficial. http://mindingourway.com/guilt/ http://mindingourway.com/guilt/ helped me to discover my intrinsic motivation. But you might end up doing something else instead of your original hobby.
• caffeine 6y ago
  The problem is that your hobbies are not hobbies, they are just more work. If you could pick something to do after work that is not TV, and that you WOULD feel like getting up and doing, what would that be? Maybe a game of tennis with a friend?