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I suspect that deification of a Warrior archetype is as old as civilization itself, and every society simply tries to find historical examples where the nasty r

I suspect that deification of a Warrior archetype is as old as civilization itself, and every society simply tries to find historical examples where the nasty reality of militarism can be conveniently white-washed away. 2,500 years is enough time to have passed that there aren't any inconvenient Helots still around to ask difficult questions.

danaris 6y ago
This same blog has a separate (but related) series of posts about pretty much this topic: he calls it The Fremen Mirage. Here's the start of it: https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-part-i-war-at-the-dawn-of-civilization/ https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-... It's pretty fascinating stuff, though it can take a while to get through.
jabl 6y ago
Perhaps it's not a coincidence that fascism is on the rise again, now that living memory of WWII is all but gone.
- roenxi 6y ago
  Fascism is "characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy" [0]. There isn't really much hint of that at the moment, although the spectre always lurks. I suppose China is a fairly strong example of how a 1-party state can achieve success. Even then there is a pretty strong argument that their political organisation is one of the biggest things holding them back. The major strategic strength has been the program of encouraging and engaging with foreign investment and that doesn't require any particular political structure. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
  - egeozcan 6y ago
    > There isn't really much hint of that at the moment You may go the "not a real scotsman" way here, but you don't even see a hint?
  - simonh 6y ago
    That is the end state of Fascism that Fascists aim to achieve, but Fascists are still fascists even if they have not yet achieved it. The first move in the Fascists playbook is destabilising and de-legitimising democracy. Suppression of dissent and centralising nationalist and unilateralist economic policies can only really come after the consolidation of centralised power. Have we seen recent attempts to de-legitimise the democratic process in the US? Perhaps by someone willing to use state security forces to interfere in state policing of protests and escalate and provoke violence? Perhaps by a charismatic figure holding mass rallies in front of adoring worshipers of a cult of personality? Perhaps by someone encouraging militias and engaging in race baiting and nationalist unilateralism? That's the playbook, but it starts with attacks on the democratic process. It's the key to everything else.
    - humanrebar 6y ago
      You're clearly intimating that the fascists in America are all on the right, but there's a strong totalitarian streak on the left growing and consolidating as well, including violence, rallies, disinterest in civil virtues (due process, free expression, etc.). Evil clowns to the left, the Joker to the right, and I wish there was a middle to be stuck in.
      - simonh 6y ago
        Yes that's true, extremists in any political faction share a lot of common characteristics, and de-legitimising their opponents is step one. Deplatforming is a significant concern for sure. That doesn't excuse it anyone though. What disappoints me, both of us probably, are those that argue vehemently that it's wrong when one group does it but give it a pass when it's done by their political allies on any side.
zozbot234 6y ago
In the Proto-Indo-European social stratification system, the warrior class was second in line below the priestly/clerical/shamanic class and above the lower classes of common merchants/craftsmen and farmers. These ideas are still very influential on European-derived societies as a whole.

danaris 6y ago

This same blog has a separate (but related) series of posts about pretty much this topic: he calls it The Fremen Mirage. Here's the start of it: https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-part-i-war-at-the-dawn-of-civilization/ https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-... It's pretty fascinating stuff, though it can take a while to get through.

jabl 6y ago

Perhaps it's not a coincidence that fascism is on the rise again, now that living memory of WWII is all but gone.

roenxi 6y ago
Fascism is "characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy" [0]. There isn't really much hint of that at the moment, although the spectre always lurks. I suppose China is a fairly strong example of how a 1-party state can achieve success. Even then there is a pretty strong argument that their political organisation is one of the biggest things holding them back. The major strategic strength has been the program of encouraging and engaging with foreign investment and that doesn't require any particular political structure. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
- egeozcan 6y ago
  > There isn't really much hint of that at the moment You may go the "not a real scotsman" way here, but you don't even see a hint?
- simonh 6y ago
  That is the end state of Fascism that Fascists aim to achieve, but Fascists are still fascists even if they have not yet achieved it. The first move in the Fascists playbook is destabilising and de-legitimising democracy. Suppression of dissent and centralising nationalist and unilateralist economic policies can only really come after the consolidation of centralised power. Have we seen recent attempts to de-legitimise the democratic process in the US? Perhaps by someone willing to use state security forces to interfere in state policing of protests and escalate and provoke violence? Perhaps by a charismatic figure holding mass rallies in front of adoring worshipers of a cult of personality? Perhaps by someone encouraging militias and engaging in race baiting and nationalist unilateralism? That's the playbook, but it starts with attacks on the democratic process. It's the key to everything else.
  - humanrebar 6y ago
    You're clearly intimating that the fascists in America are all on the right, but there's a strong totalitarian streak on the left growing and consolidating as well, including violence, rallies, disinterest in civil virtues (due process, free expression, etc.). Evil clowns to the left, the Joker to the right, and I wish there was a middle to be stuck in.
    - simonh 6y ago
      Yes that's true, extremists in any political faction share a lot of common characteristics, and de-legitimising their opponents is step one. Deplatforming is a significant concern for sure. That doesn't excuse it anyone though. What disappoints me, both of us probably, are those that argue vehemently that it's wrong when one group does it but give it a pass when it's done by their political allies on any side.

zozbot234 6y ago

In the Proto-Indo-European social stratification system, the warrior class was second in line below the priestly/clerical/shamanic class and above the lower classes of common merchants/craftsmen and farmers. These ideas are still very influential on European-derived societies as a whole.