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>The discovery helps confirm a new and troubling understanding that the Greenland Ice Sheet has melted entirely during recent warm periods in Earth's history --

>The discovery helps confirm a new and troubling understanding that the Greenland Ice Sheet has melted entirely during recent warm periods in Earth's history -- like the one we are now creating with human-caused climate change. Earth naturally warming was a.. natural event - there is no need to label it troubling or liken it to an artificially-warmed event

dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads into classic generic flamewar topics, and definitely not with provocative one-liners, which have trollish effect if not trollish intent. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=troll%20effects%20by:dang&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=troll%20effects%20by:dang&date... Note the site guidelines on this: "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 867-5309 6y ago
  honestly, there was no intent, but I did enjoy the twisted knickers! duly noted
  - dang 6y ago
    All twisted knickers are the same and it gets old fast, especially to the bystanders (a.k.a. the rest of us) who have no stake in the titillation. So please don't. When it comes to trolling, effects matter more than intent: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=troll%20effects%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor....
animal_spirits 6y ago
> The new study provides strong evidence that Greenland is more sensitive to climate change than previously understood -- and at risk of irreversibly melting. I think its silly to say _irreversibly_ melting. It apparently was completely ice free at one point, and then something natural caused it to freeze over. Likely it could happen again in the future
- danielheath 6y ago
  Sure, but it seems unlikely to be reversible on human timescales, which are the ones that matter to me.
  - exporectomy 6y ago
    It won't melt on human timescales either. Total mass of Greenland ice = 4e15 tonnes. Upper end of predicted melt rate this century = 4e13 tonnes/century. So it could lose up to 1% of its mass this century or at the same rate, take 10,000 years to completely melt.
    - eloff 6y ago
      Those estimates can always be revised as we learn more, and melting ice sheets are not a linear process - it accelerates both as it melts and as the climate continues to warm. You're right that it will take a long time, but wrong that we needn't worry. Even just a couple feet of sea level rise will wreak havoc in parts of the world.
      - exporectomy 6y ago
        We're talking about the irreversibility of the melting here, not the fact that it's melting which everyone already knows and was even happening before AGW started.
        eloff 6y ago
        No, we were taking about the pace of melting and the impact of that. Don't move the goal posts.
brainless 6y ago
It is already well known that the Earth has gone through melting and freezing cycles but we, humans, have surely created* this particular melting cycle. The problem is not with the Earth. It is that we, humans, we likely not survive if this cycle of climate change continues.
- ctdonath 6y ago
  We're at a periodic (125,000 year) temperature peak. Warming is surely a natural event. http://donath.org/Photos/TempChange.PNG http://donath.org/Photos/TempChange.PNG
  - lebuffon 6y ago
    Indeed the warming is a natural event. The glaciers melted long before humanity could make any difference. The new bit is that we are helping it along at what is probably an unprecedented rate. So it's not about the change. It is about the rate of change. When I was born the atmosphere had ~314 PPM of CO2. It is now north of 415PPM and going up ~2.5PPM per year. CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Now how could that relate to us requiring over 95,000,000 barrels of oil PER DAY to run our civilization? (it is closer to 98M in 2021) https://www.statista.com/statistics/265203/global-oil-production-since-in-barrels-per-day/#:~:text=The%20level%20of%20oil%20production,from%20biomass%20and%20coal%20derivatives https://www.statista.com/statistics/265203/global-oil-produc.... For perspective do some back of the napkin math on the height 98,000,000 barrels of oil would be if you made a 100x100 base of barrels and stacked them vertically. Standard drums have inside dimensions of 572 millimetres (22.5 in) diameter and 851 millimetres (33.5 in) height. (remember that's per day) We have in all probability made the time when coastal cities are flooded happen sooner and it is highly unlikely that we can improve the situation very much in the short term.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    No, it's not. Stop spreading false information.
    - ctdonath 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ncallaway 6y ago
> Earth naturally warming was a.. natural event - there is no need to label it troubling or liken it to an artificially-warmed event Natural events can still be troubling or cataclysmic. If the Greenland ice sheet melted entirely relatively quickly, it would be extremely troubling whether it was happening for human or natural reasons. We still have to adapt and survive any climate changes that happen, natural or not. If climate changes pose a significant risk to us, they are troubling, natural or not.
ianai 6y ago
“Since some twenty feet of sea-level rise is tied up in Greenland's ice, every coastal city in the world is at risk. The new study provides the strongest evidence yet that Greenland is more fragile and sensitive to climate change than previously understood -- and at grave risk of irreversibly melting off.” That’s troubling enough for me.
- exporectomy 6y ago
  Why? At predicted climate change induced melt rate for this century, that melting will take longer than the time just about any human city has ever existed on Earth. Do the maths before you get troubled by nothing.
  - eganist 6y ago
    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2940/greenlands-rapid-melt-will-mean-more-flooding/ https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2940/greenlands-rapid-melt-wil... A human accessible primer for you.
  - irrational 6y ago
    How long is that? From what I can recall, Jericho has been continuously inhabited for 10,000 years.
    - exporectomy 6y ago
      Yes, that long.
      - TomSwirly 6y ago
        Translation of what you wrote: "I just make things up out of my imagination, because facts aren't real."
- drewmol 6y ago
  The phrase "irreversibly melting off" is troubling for me to read.
monkeydreams 6y ago
> Earth naturally warming was a.. natural event - there is no need to label it troubling or liken it to an artificially-warmed event So as long as a patient has the genetic markers for aggressive cancer, there is no reason we should lift a finger to give them life saving treatment? Just because people die, we shouldn't have laws for murder? Just because a catastrophic outcome can happen naturally, does not mean that we should happily cause it to occur through artificial means or stand by and watch it happen naturally if we can avoid it.

dang 6y ago

Please don't take HN threads into classic generic flamewar topics, and definitely not with provocative one-liners, which have trollish effect if not trollish intent. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=troll%20effects%20by:dang&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=troll%20effects%20by:dang&date... Note the site guidelines on this: "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

867-5309 6y ago
honestly, there was no intent, but I did enjoy the twisted knickers! duly noted
- dang 6y ago
  All twisted knickers are the same and it gets old fast, especially to the bystanders (a.k.a. the rest of us) who have no stake in the titillation. So please don't. When it comes to trolling, effects matter more than intent: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=troll%20effects%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor....

animal_spirits 6y ago

> The new study provides strong evidence that Greenland is more sensitive to climate change than previously understood -- and at risk of irreversibly melting. I think its silly to say _irreversibly_ melting. It apparently was completely ice free at one point, and then something natural caused it to freeze over. Likely it could happen again in the future

danielheath 6y ago
Sure, but it seems unlikely to be reversible on human timescales, which are the ones that matter to me.
- exporectomy 6y ago
  It won't melt on human timescales either. Total mass of Greenland ice = 4e15 tonnes. Upper end of predicted melt rate this century = 4e13 tonnes/century. So it could lose up to 1% of its mass this century or at the same rate, take 10,000 years to completely melt.
  - eloff 6y ago
    Those estimates can always be revised as we learn more, and melting ice sheets are not a linear process - it accelerates both as it melts and as the climate continues to warm. You're right that it will take a long time, but wrong that we needn't worry. Even just a couple feet of sea level rise will wreak havoc in parts of the world.
    - exporectomy 6y ago
      We're talking about the irreversibility of the melting here, not the fact that it's melting which everyone already knows and was even happening before AGW started.
      - eloff 6y ago
        No, we were taking about the pace of melting and the impact of that. Don't move the goal posts.

brainless 6y ago

It is already well known that the Earth has gone through melting and freezing cycles but we, humans, have surely created* this particular melting cycle. The problem is not with the Earth. It is that we, humans, we likely not survive if this cycle of climate change continues.

ctdonath 6y ago
We're at a periodic (125,000 year) temperature peak. Warming is surely a natural event. http://donath.org/Photos/TempChange.PNG http://donath.org/Photos/TempChange.PNG
- lebuffon 6y ago
  Indeed the warming is a natural event. The glaciers melted long before humanity could make any difference. The new bit is that we are helping it along at what is probably an unprecedented rate. So it's not about the change. It is about the rate of change. When I was born the atmosphere had ~314 PPM of CO2. It is now north of 415PPM and going up ~2.5PPM per year. CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Now how could that relate to us requiring over 95,000,000 barrels of oil PER DAY to run our civilization? (it is closer to 98M in 2021) https://www.statista.com/statistics/265203/global-oil-production-since-in-barrels-per-day/#:~:text=The%20level%20of%20oil%20production,from%20biomass%20and%20coal%20derivatives https://www.statista.com/statistics/265203/global-oil-produc.... For perspective do some back of the napkin math on the height 98,000,000 barrels of oil would be if you made a 100x100 base of barrels and stacked them vertically. Standard drums have inside dimensions of 572 millimetres (22.5 in) diameter and 851 millimetres (33.5 in) height. (remember that's per day) We have in all probability made the time when coastal cities are flooded happen sooner and it is highly unlikely that we can improve the situation very much in the short term.
- adrianN 6y ago
  No, it's not. Stop spreading false information.
  - ctdonath 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ncallaway 6y ago

> Earth naturally warming was a.. natural event - there is no need to label it troubling or liken it to an artificially-warmed event Natural events can still be troubling or cataclysmic. If the Greenland ice sheet melted entirely relatively quickly, it would be extremely troubling whether it was happening for human or natural reasons. We still have to adapt and survive any climate changes that happen, natural or not. If climate changes pose a significant risk to us, they are troubling, natural or not.

ianai 6y ago

“Since some twenty feet of sea-level rise is tied up in Greenland's ice, every coastal city in the world is at risk. The new study provides the strongest evidence yet that Greenland is more fragile and sensitive to climate change than previously understood -- and at grave risk of irreversibly melting off.” That’s troubling enough for me.

exporectomy 6y ago
Why? At predicted climate change induced melt rate for this century, that melting will take longer than the time just about any human city has ever existed on Earth. Do the maths before you get troubled by nothing.
- eganist 6y ago
  https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2940/greenlands-rapid-melt-will-mean-more-flooding/ https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2940/greenlands-rapid-melt-wil... A human accessible primer for you.
- irrational 6y ago
  How long is that? From what I can recall, Jericho has been continuously inhabited for 10,000 years.
  - exporectomy 6y ago
    Yes, that long.
    - TomSwirly 6y ago
      Translation of what you wrote: "I just make things up out of my imagination, because facts aren't real."
drewmol 6y ago
The phrase "irreversibly melting off" is troubling for me to read.

monkeydreams 6y ago

> Earth naturally warming was a.. natural event - there is no need to label it troubling or liken it to an artificially-warmed event So as long as a patient has the genetic markers for aggressive cancer, there is no reason we should lift a finger to give them life saving treatment? Just because people die, we shouldn't have laws for murder? Just because a catastrophic outcome can happen naturally, does not mean that we should happily cause it to occur through artificial means or stand by and watch it happen naturally if we can avoid it.