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I'm not here to defend Bitcoin nor respond to critiques. Just not what I'm in to. Full disclosure, I have a financial stake in Bitcoin. My observation on all o

I'm not here to defend Bitcoin nor respond to critiques. Just not what I'm in to. Full disclosure, I have a financial stake in Bitcoin. My observation on all of this is that the most common themes to bear Bitcoin - can all be fixed! People are quite happy to look at the current landscape and proclaim immediate and indefinite failure. Detractors allow no room for growth. Volatility - you could argue that Bitcoin is still so young that the market is trying to determine it's worth. I estimate that Bitcoin is significantly less volatile at some point in the future. Real world use cases - currently I agree, I don't see a great use of it ... yet. I think we'll find something. Energy, sure okay it uses a lot of energy. Is this less problematic is most of the energy is sourced from renewables (now or in the future)? Certainly it's also possible that the protocol is updated to be more energy efficient, or another coin reigns supreme.

ALittleLight 6y ago
I've doubted bitcoin for years, and continue to. Part of me realizes I was wrong, in the sense that I would've made money had I only bought and held - but I can't bring myself to buy something that doesn't work. I can't use it as currency due to transaction fees and times. "Store of value" is basically the same thing as "Ponzi scheme" as far as I can tell. I would've made money, but...
- ev0lv 6y ago
  >but I can't bring myself to buy something that doesn't work. Doesn't that also describe most stocks that do not have dividends? What is their tangible value?
graeme 6y ago
I didn’t mention volatility. I said Bitcoin’s current run up is backed by massive fraud.
dodobirdlord 6y ago
> Certainly it's also possible that the protocol is updated to be more energy efficient, or another coin reigns supreme. It’s essentially impossible that the protocol gets updated in any way at all. Even the most trivial of changes like trying to increase the block size went nowhere. Bitcoin has thoroughly fossilized, so I’m immediately skeptical of the intentions of Bitcoin evangelists.
lmm 6y ago
> My observation on all of this is that the most common themes to bear Bitcoin - can all be fixed! People are quite happy to look at the current landscape and proclaim immediate and indefinite failure. Detractors allow no room for growth. On the contrary, I've been watching bitcoin for what, ten years now, and if anything the practical usability has gone backwards. Sellers who trumpeted that they were accepting bitcoin payments quietly dropped it a few years later. Transaction fees rose and rose, and the governance process (such as there is) handled the resulting conflicts remarkably poorly. Five or ten years ago I was skeptical but interested. Nowadays I see it as a de facto scam, even if it didn't start life as one.
- ozy123 6y ago
  Do you see gold as a defacto scam?
  - lmm 6y ago
    Gold as an investment? Yes (also art, wine, baseball cards, ...). Obviously gold does have legitimate value as an industrial commodity, but IIRC the price is about twice what it "should" be based on the industrial/decorative uses.

ALittleLight 6y ago

I've doubted bitcoin for years, and continue to. Part of me realizes I was wrong, in the sense that I would've made money had I only bought and held - but I can't bring myself to buy something that doesn't work. I can't use it as currency due to transaction fees and times. "Store of value" is basically the same thing as "Ponzi scheme" as far as I can tell. I would've made money, but...

ev0lv 6y ago
>but I can't bring myself to buy something that doesn't work. Doesn't that also describe most stocks that do not have dividends? What is their tangible value?

graeme 6y ago

I didn’t mention volatility. I said Bitcoin’s current run up is backed by massive fraud.

dodobirdlord 6y ago

> Certainly it's also possible that the protocol is updated to be more energy efficient, or another coin reigns supreme. It’s essentially impossible that the protocol gets updated in any way at all. Even the most trivial of changes like trying to increase the block size went nowhere. Bitcoin has thoroughly fossilized, so I’m immediately skeptical of the intentions of Bitcoin evangelists.

lmm 6y ago

> My observation on all of this is that the most common themes to bear Bitcoin - can all be fixed! People are quite happy to look at the current landscape and proclaim immediate and indefinite failure. Detractors allow no room for growth. On the contrary, I've been watching bitcoin for what, ten years now, and if anything the practical usability has gone backwards. Sellers who trumpeted that they were accepting bitcoin payments quietly dropped it a few years later. Transaction fees rose and rose, and the governance process (such as there is) handled the resulting conflicts remarkably poorly. Five or ten years ago I was skeptical but interested. Nowadays I see it as a de facto scam, even if it didn't start life as one.

ozy123 6y ago
Do you see gold as a defacto scam?
- lmm 6y ago
  Gold as an investment? Yes (also art, wine, baseball cards, ...). Obviously gold does have legitimate value as an industrial commodity, but IIRC the price is about twice what it "should" be based on the industrial/decorative uses.