7 ms·

I'd extend these virtue signaling "moments" to stuff like changing the names of sports teams and bases and all of the attempts to scrub "offensive" things from

I'd extend these virtue signaling "moments" to stuff like changing the names of sports teams and bases and all of the attempts to scrub "offensive" things from our lexicon. It's not just limited to "black" but also American Indians, gay people, trans, etc. These all strike me as Priviledged people being offended for others and trying to scream "LOOK AT ME I'M FIXING THINGS!!!" with stuff that matters to no one... and in the end, they widen the divide and make everything 100x worse with all the policies to "fix" racism/sexism/all'the'other'isms but making everything about race/sex/etc. So divisive and counter productive uses of time that solve nothing.

TylerE 6y ago
The sports team issue is very different. That's a very public name widely used in commerce. It's not like there are millions of people walking around in "master branch" t-shirts with a caricature of an overseer on it.
- rfoo 6y ago
  Yeah, but there are millions of people typing "master" branch on their keyboards, daily. Is this that different than the sports team issue? I'm sure you can find "important" differences if you try playing Leeuwenhoek, but why?
  - shakow 6y ago
    But master can mean many different things other than “a white man owning black slaves in 19^th century US” – and was not created with this name in mind; whereas the sport team name was unambiguously chosen and featured a caricature of the very thing they chose their name after on their logo.
    - throwaway894345 6y ago
      It's a 'caricature' in that choosing societies renown for being valiant warriors erases much complexity (how much nuance and complexity were you expecting from a sports mascot?). Anyway, if this were a sincere movement, it would similarly object to equivalent depictions of the Irish, Vikings, Romans, Spartans, Trojans, etc.
      - shakow 6y ago
        No, it's a caricature because I mistook the Cleveland Indians logo for the Washington Redskins logo, my bad.
        throwaway894345 6y ago
        I see your point, but even still no one objects to the Fighting Irish or Boston Celtics logos despite being every bit the caricature. Are we doing this out of respect for Native Americans, or is it to make ourselves feel noble while we (myself included) make no progress on their material concerns?
        TylerE 6y ago
        The whole "invaded their homeland and then slaughtered most of them" factor is certainly in play.
        throwaway894345 6y ago
        Are you being ironic or are you unaware of Irish history?
        salawat 6y ago
        Many are woefully iggnorant of the trials of the Irish sadly.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
solosoyokaze 6y ago
The sports team thing is really offensive though. They're literally using Native Americans as team mascots. Especially given the genocide that occurred. There's no reason to use any race of human, especially those who were struck with some of the worst systemic violence in history, as a mascot for a sports team.
- aksss 6y ago
  I have a lot of Native American friends, they grouse about losing the Redskins team. I think the white SJWs don’t really understand the dynamic. Not claiming I do either but point being a lot of people took pride in that team for its name and representation, it wasn’t a joke. One of the side effects of this purge/righteous cleansing is that it’s also scrubbing out representation. Land-o-lakes being another example.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    The renaming has very broad support in Native communities: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Washington_Redskins_name_change_advocates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Washington_Redskins_...
  - kaitai 6y ago
    I think the Redskins example is not great, as I also know plenty of folks who support the renaming; there is plenty of division among Native folks around this name. Land O'Lakes, though, is a much more interesting example -- Patrick DesJarlait, the artist, was Ojibwe, and his son wrote a very interesting article about this for the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/29/my-ojibwe-father-drew-land-olakes-maiden-she-was-never-stereotype/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/29/my-ojibwe...
- nonameiguess 6y ago
  I'm honestly still amazed sometimes that the Fighting Irish mascot of Notre Dame is still a thing. It seems inevitable that it gets relegated to the scrap heap of history at some point, but I guess people don't care as much since the Irish, at least in the U.S., mostly ended up catching a break and didn't become a permanent underclass all but obliterated from existence by military might like Native Americans were.
kaitai 6y ago
Changing sports team names does reduce the number of people prancing around in fake headdresses and doing the "Tomahawk chop"... I would love to spend more time on economic and tax code reform so as to make the United States more equitable. Would you like to join me? There is not a lot of benefit in arguing, "This is not the thing I think is most important for you to do, so you shouldn't do it" -- let people work on what they want to work on, and put your energy into making substantive change that you believe in.
- clairity 6y ago
  i'm with you. it's shocking how much attention this bullshit is getting, while there are a million more imortant issues to tackle. this is misdirection at its worst.
  - soundnote 6y ago
    Part of the point is to create jobs for political apparatchiks. We've trained tons of witches with degrees in whateverstudies and not much else to show for it. Ever wonder why they set up political DIE commissar's offices and demand people to get training? It's to parasitize actually productive things.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    The parent post is saying that it's pointless to call this bullshit and complain about what other people are upset about. It's also saying that changing team names reduces racism as it stops people from performing racist actions that have been built into showing team support. It's not misdirection. It's just that these are issues you personally don't care about.
    - clairity 6y ago
      the misdirection isn't the name change itself, which is trivial in every sense of the word, it's the bullshit discussion around it. to continue focusing on it after the fact is the misdirection, keeping us from discussing substantive issues, like actual systemic, structural barriers to prosperity and equality of opportunity.

TylerE 6y ago

The sports team issue is very different. That's a very public name widely used in commerce. It's not like there are millions of people walking around in "master branch" t-shirts with a caricature of an overseer on it.

rfoo 6y ago
Yeah, but there are millions of people typing "master" branch on their keyboards, daily. Is this that different than the sports team issue? I'm sure you can find "important" differences if you try playing Leeuwenhoek, but why?
- shakow 6y ago
  But master can mean many different things other than “a white man owning black slaves in 19^th century US” – and was not created with this name in mind; whereas the sport team name was unambiguously chosen and featured a caricature of the very thing they chose their name after on their logo.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    It's a 'caricature' in that choosing societies renown for being valiant warriors erases much complexity (how much nuance and complexity were you expecting from a sports mascot?). Anyway, if this were a sincere movement, it would similarly object to equivalent depictions of the Irish, Vikings, Romans, Spartans, Trojans, etc.
    - shakow 6y ago
      No, it's a caricature because I mistook the Cleveland Indians logo for the Washington Redskins logo, my bad.
      - throwaway894345 6y ago
        I see your point, but even still no one objects to the Fighting Irish or Boston Celtics logos despite being every bit the caricature. Are we doing this out of respect for Native Americans, or is it to make ourselves feel noble while we (myself included) make no progress on their material concerns?
        TylerE 6y ago
        The whole "invaded their homeland and then slaughtered most of them" factor is certainly in play.
        throwaway894345 6y ago
        Are you being ironic or are you unaware of Irish history?
        salawat 6y ago
        Many are woefully iggnorant of the trials of the Irish sadly.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

solosoyokaze 6y ago

The sports team thing is really offensive though. They're literally using Native Americans as team mascots. Especially given the genocide that occurred. There's no reason to use any race of human, especially those who were struck with some of the worst systemic violence in history, as a mascot for a sports team.

aksss 6y ago
I have a lot of Native American friends, they grouse about losing the Redskins team. I think the white SJWs don’t really understand the dynamic. Not claiming I do either but point being a lot of people took pride in that team for its name and representation, it wasn’t a joke. One of the side effects of this purge/righteous cleansing is that it’s also scrubbing out representation. Land-o-lakes being another example.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  The renaming has very broad support in Native communities: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Washington_Redskins_name_change_advocates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Washington_Redskins_...
- kaitai 6y ago
  I think the Redskins example is not great, as I also know plenty of folks who support the renaming; there is plenty of division among Native folks around this name. Land O'Lakes, though, is a much more interesting example -- Patrick DesJarlait, the artist, was Ojibwe, and his son wrote a very interesting article about this for the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/29/my-ojibwe-father-drew-land-olakes-maiden-she-was-never-stereotype/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/29/my-ojibwe...
nonameiguess 6y ago
I'm honestly still amazed sometimes that the Fighting Irish mascot of Notre Dame is still a thing. It seems inevitable that it gets relegated to the scrap heap of history at some point, but I guess people don't care as much since the Irish, at least in the U.S., mostly ended up catching a break and didn't become a permanent underclass all but obliterated from existence by military might like Native Americans were.

kaitai 6y ago

Changing sports team names does reduce the number of people prancing around in fake headdresses and doing the "Tomahawk chop"... I would love to spend more time on economic and tax code reform so as to make the United States more equitable. Would you like to join me? There is not a lot of benefit in arguing, "This is not the thing I think is most important for you to do, so you shouldn't do it" -- let people work on what they want to work on, and put your energy into making substantive change that you believe in.

clairity 6y ago
i'm with you. it's shocking how much attention this bullshit is getting, while there are a million more imortant issues to tackle. this is misdirection at its worst.
- soundnote 6y ago
  Part of the point is to create jobs for political apparatchiks. We've trained tons of witches with degrees in whateverstudies and not much else to show for it. Ever wonder why they set up political DIE commissar's offices and demand people to get training? It's to parasitize actually productive things.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  The parent post is saying that it's pointless to call this bullshit and complain about what other people are upset about. It's also saying that changing team names reduces racism as it stops people from performing racist actions that have been built into showing team support. It's not misdirection. It's just that these are issues you personally don't care about.
  - clairity 6y ago
    the misdirection isn't the name change itself, which is trivial in every sense of the word, it's the bullshit discussion around it. to continue focusing on it after the fact is the misdirection, keeping us from discussing substantive issues, like actual systemic, structural barriers to prosperity and equality of opportunity.