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Cars Have Your Location. This Spy Firm Wants to Sell It to the U.S. Military

73 points by vsdlrd 6y ago

Black101 6y ago
We need instructions to disconnect any car.
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
from the article: > "Ulysses can provide our clients with the ability to remotely geolocate vehicles in nearly every country except for North Korea and Cuba on a near real time basis," the document, written by contractor The Ulysses Group, reads. "Currently, we can access over 15 billion vehicle locations around the world every month," the document adds.
luxuryballs 6y ago
2020 Toyota owners there’s likely a DCM fuse you can pull, there is in the Tacoma I picked up (pun intended) “Data Collection Module” I believe, however it will also curiously disable the in-cabin microphone, fine by me... even finer now that I know those are connected... my research indicated that there’s a Verizon “SIM” embedded in the vehicle
- m463 6y ago
  I had a nissan and when I was looking at the schematics for the "telematics module" it routed everything through it, including voice. Note that voice was not one of the features offered. I just pulled the power cable. The car did not throw any error messages and functioned as normal.
mmglr 6y ago
What is unclear from this article, and perhaps manufacturer specific, is if a vehicle has a telematics system but the owner does not have an active subscription is vehicle data still being collected?
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Depends on the OEM and the product lines involved.
- luxuryballs 6y ago
  Yeah makes me wonder if they will use this to hammer your warranty claim if they detect “aggressive driving”.
  - OldHand2018 6y ago
    Don't worry, they only keep that data around for 20 years. https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ > Driving Data. We collect your Driving Behavior Data (“Driving Data”) which includes the acceleration and speed at which your vehicle is driven, travel direction, and use of the steering and braking functionality in your vehicle. Driving Data is used to deliver Connected Services, and App Suite services to you, and for quality confirmation, data analysis, research, and product development. > Driving Data. We will store such data for a period of time not to exceed 20 years from the date of receipt by us, unless otherwise required by law, legal process or litigation. Oh, by the way: > Remote Data. At last Ignition Off, we may collect the Real Time Status of your vehicle (i.e., vehicle location, status of powered doors, windows, hood, trunk, sunroof, hazard lights, odometer reading, oil life, fuel economy, trip distance, distance to empty) so you can remotely access your vehicle’s most recent information. Toyota uses this information to deliver Remote services to you. > Location Data. We will store such data for a period of time not to exceed 20 years from the date of receipt by us, unless otherwise required by law, legal process or litigation. So basically, your car phones home every time you turn it off. > Warning: If you do not deactivate Connected Services, you specifically consent to our electronic collection and use of your personal information and vehicle data as described above and our storage of such data wherever we designate. > If you do not notify us of a sale or transfer of your vehicle, we may continue to send reports or other information about the vehicle or account to the subscriber’s contact information currently on file with us. In such case, we are not responsible for any privacy related damages you may suffer. Such nice people!
    - 6y ago
ic0n0cl4st 6y ago
Living in the future sucks. We thought we were going to get an Asimovian utopia. Instead it’s more like a sad cross-over between gibson and orwell.
- Black101 6y ago
  I wish that I was born 30 years earlier so that only my kids would have to deal with it.
- luxuryballs 6y ago
  and Huxley, big time Huxley (didn’t I just see a post about baby mice grown in fake wombs?)
  - ic0n0cl4st 6y ago
    I always wondered if Frank Herbert’s “Axlotl tanks” were borrowed from Huxley.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  I like the future we used to have so much more than the one we’re getting. https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/105733490970557754 https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/105733490970557754
scohesc 6y ago
I really want to have an electric truck as my next vehicle, but with all the technology and phoning home that's being put into them - I'm going to be driving old ICE trucks for the foreseeable future.
- rsj_hn 6y ago
  Better get a used ICE truck. Nothing about an electric drivetrain requires this, and nothing about an ICE drivetrain prohibits it. It's just that PEVs allow manufacturers to reset expectations and greenwash a lot of business practices that would otherwise trigger a consumer revolt -- make the machines not serviceable, make them disposable, and make them constantly tracked/remotely controlled. Kill the secondary market for repairs and sales, and own the total automotive spend. That car manufacturers made the association between this power-grab and an electric powertrain is truly a genius public psyop. Even now, if you point out how anti-consumer and anti-freedom these practices are, you get attacked as destroying the planet's future. Just incredible what is happening under the hood, so to speak, of the current PEV movement; which has nothing to do with new sources of power generation and everything to do with new business models. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, manufacturers refuse to sell cars to end users at all, but will only lease you a car if you license various features on an ongoing basis. The whole concept of an ownership society of people who can do what they want with what they buy is under incredible attack by everyone from nanny-state regulators to corporations who want a subscription model and a locked down platform.
abrookewood 6y ago
From the article: "Vehicle telematics is data transmitted from the vehicle to the automaker or OEM through embedded communications systems in the car," the Ulysses document continues. "Among the thousands of other data points, vehicle location data is transmitted on a constant and near real time basis while the vehicle is operating." Surely you would know if there was a SIM card in your car? How else could this be done?

73 points by vsdlrd 6y ago

We need instructions to disconnect any car.

from the article: > "Ulysses can provide our clients with the ability to remotely geolocate vehicles in nearly every country except for North Korea and Cuba on a near real time basis," the document, written by contractor The Ulysses Group, reads. "Currently, we can access over 15 billion vehicle locations around the world every month," the document adds.

luxuryballs 6y ago

2020 Toyota owners there’s likely a DCM fuse you can pull, there is in the Tacoma I picked up (pun intended) “Data Collection Module” I believe, however it will also curiously disable the in-cabin microphone, fine by me... even finer now that I know those are connected... my research indicated that there’s a Verizon “SIM” embedded in the vehicle

m463 6y ago
I had a nissan and when I was looking at the schematics for the "telematics module" it routed everything through it, including voice. Note that voice was not one of the features offered. I just pulled the power cable. The car did not throw any error messages and functioned as normal.

mmglr 6y ago

What is unclear from this article, and perhaps manufacturer specific, is if a vehicle has a telematics system but the owner does not have an active subscription is vehicle data still being collected?

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Depends on the OEM and the product lines involved.
luxuryballs 6y ago
Yeah makes me wonder if they will use this to hammer your warranty claim if they detect “aggressive driving”.
- OldHand2018 6y ago
  Don't worry, they only keep that data around for 20 years. https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ > Driving Data. We collect your Driving Behavior Data (“Driving Data”) which includes the acceleration and speed at which your vehicle is driven, travel direction, and use of the steering and braking functionality in your vehicle. Driving Data is used to deliver Connected Services, and App Suite services to you, and for quality confirmation, data analysis, research, and product development. > Driving Data. We will store such data for a period of time not to exceed 20 years from the date of receipt by us, unless otherwise required by law, legal process or litigation. Oh, by the way: > Remote Data. At last Ignition Off, we may collect the Real Time Status of your vehicle (i.e., vehicle location, status of powered doors, windows, hood, trunk, sunroof, hazard lights, odometer reading, oil life, fuel economy, trip distance, distance to empty) so you can remotely access your vehicle’s most recent information. Toyota uses this information to deliver Remote services to you. > Location Data. We will store such data for a period of time not to exceed 20 years from the date of receipt by us, unless otherwise required by law, legal process or litigation. So basically, your car phones home every time you turn it off. > Warning: If you do not deactivate Connected Services, you specifically consent to our electronic collection and use of your personal information and vehicle data as described above and our storage of such data wherever we designate. > If you do not notify us of a sale or transfer of your vehicle, we may continue to send reports or other information about the vehicle or account to the subscriber’s contact information currently on file with us. In such case, we are not responsible for any privacy related damages you may suffer. Such nice people!
  - 6y ago

ic0n0cl4st 6y ago

Living in the future sucks. We thought we were going to get an Asimovian utopia. Instead it’s more like a sad cross-over between gibson and orwell.

Black101 6y ago
I wish that I was born 30 years earlier so that only my kids would have to deal with it.
luxuryballs 6y ago
and Huxley, big time Huxley (didn’t I just see a post about baby mice grown in fake wombs?)
- ic0n0cl4st 6y ago
  I always wondered if Frank Herbert’s “Axlotl tanks” were borrowed from Huxley.
dredmorbius 6y ago
I like the future we used to have so much more than the one we’re getting. https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/105733490970557754 https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/105733490970557754

scohesc 6y ago

I really want to have an electric truck as my next vehicle, but with all the technology and phoning home that's being put into them - I'm going to be driving old ICE trucks for the foreseeable future.

rsj_hn 6y ago
Better get a used ICE truck. Nothing about an electric drivetrain requires this, and nothing about an ICE drivetrain prohibits it. It's just that PEVs allow manufacturers to reset expectations and greenwash a lot of business practices that would otherwise trigger a consumer revolt -- make the machines not serviceable, make them disposable, and make them constantly tracked/remotely controlled. Kill the secondary market for repairs and sales, and own the total automotive spend. That car manufacturers made the association between this power-grab and an electric powertrain is truly a genius public psyop. Even now, if you point out how anti-consumer and anti-freedom these practices are, you get attacked as destroying the planet's future. Just incredible what is happening under the hood, so to speak, of the current PEV movement; which has nothing to do with new sources of power generation and everything to do with new business models. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, manufacturers refuse to sell cars to end users at all, but will only lease you a car if you license various features on an ongoing basis. The whole concept of an ownership society of people who can do what they want with what they buy is under incredible attack by everyone from nanny-state regulators to corporations who want a subscription model and a locked down platform.

abrookewood 6y ago

From the article: "Vehicle telematics is data transmitted from the vehicle to the automaker or OEM through embedded communications systems in the car," the Ulysses document continues. "Among the thousands of other data points, vehicle location data is transmitted on a constant and near real time basis while the vehicle is operating." Surely you would know if there was a SIM card in your car? How else could this be done?