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Do you really enjoy having 3 different managers to report to? All of whom have 3 different projects they’re dealing with? IMO, it’s better to have a 1:1 ratio o

Do you really enjoy having 3 different managers to report to? All of whom have 3 different projects they’re dealing with? IMO, it’s better to have a 1:1 ratio of managers to teams. A 3:3 ratio is a recipe for endless meetings and communication overhead. 1:1 and 3:3 have the same number of employees, but 1:1 eliminates all of the communication overhead because there’s only 1 manager per team instead of 3. In my experience, splitting managers, designers, and QA people across 3 simultaneous projects results in 1 project dominating their time and the other 2 projects being starved for attention. Repeat this across the product manager, engineering manager, QA person, UI designer, and project manager and you virtually guarantee that every project is going to be starved of resources. Instead of having 3 separate product, project, and engineering managers split their time across 3 different projects and wasting time synchronizing with each other and the teams, it’s better to have 1 person handle the role of product, project, and engineering manager with 100% focus on the project and team. I’ve worked in teams like you’ve described. It quickly turns into a mess of meeting scheduling conflicts, repeating every discussion 3 times because you have to communicate it to 3 different managers, and constantly working around blockers because your UI or QA person has been pulled into a higher priority project. Put small teams together. Let them focus 100% on getting things done. Don’t cross everyone over to 3 teams. Don’t give everyone 3 different managers.

poorman 6y ago
I'm not sure where the 3 managers comes from. Product manager (Product Owner in scrum), Senior Dev / Tech Lead, Dev1, Dev2, QA, and UI/UX Designer all report to Engineering manager. Further, changing the mindset from "as a manager these reports work for me" to "as a manager I work for these reports" improves the feeling of ICs having "multiple managers". The managers job should largely be unblocking the ICs.
- poorman 6y ago
  I would further note, if you have a Project Manager that reports to leadership outside your direct team, you should have a Product Manager on the engineering team to counter-balance. Project Manager's goal is to drive leadership initiatives, where as the Product Manager's goal is to guard the members of the team so they are not stretched too thin and can build a quality product.
- Trasmatta 6y ago
  > all report to Engineering manager In my experience, product managers have never reported to an engineering manager. Which is probably part of the problem, and why this type of hierarchy can lead to a "3 managers" type scenario. The product manager, senior dev / tech lead, and engineering manager all have some management responsibilities. When the separation of responsibility is not clearly delineated, so the regular team members are left in an awkward position of having 3 different people they have to report to, and often get conflicting feedback from each of them.
- iandanforth 6y ago
  Basically this, for us it was: Eng Manager <- Devs, Project Manager Product manager -- UI/UX (same org not direct reports) QA (Had their own reporting structure)
MobileVet 6y ago
'I have eight managers Bob' - Peter 'Eight?' - Bob 'Eight Bob' - Peter
ska 6y ago
> 1 person handle the role of product, project, and engineering manager with 100% focus on the project and team. This is incredibly difficult to get right. A good product manager needs to be spending time "in the field", sometimes literally but always in terms of focus. A good engineering manager has to be spending time "in the lab", again literally & figuratively. These two things are in contention, and balancing them properly in one person is very difficult. Anyone who has project management skills can do that part, but trick is dedicating enough time to it. On a complicated project, this can easily become a full time job. matrix management has it's own challenges (not that this is the only way to handle it) but your contention that because there are 3 "managers" involved means that everyone "has" 3 managers just isn't true. Most of this stuff is about responsibilities, not chain-of-command.
ip26 6y ago
I don't think the IC's have 3 managers in this arrangement. The product manager & engineering manager work together in a customer-provider relationship, while the project manager acts as a sort of facilitator and metrics collector, & doesn't hold direct authority over the IC's.

poorman 6y ago

I'm not sure where the 3 managers comes from. Product manager (Product Owner in scrum), Senior Dev / Tech Lead, Dev1, Dev2, QA, and UI/UX Designer all report to Engineering manager. Further, changing the mindset from "as a manager these reports work for me" to "as a manager I work for these reports" improves the feeling of ICs having "multiple managers". The managers job should largely be unblocking the ICs.

poorman 6y ago
I would further note, if you have a Project Manager that reports to leadership outside your direct team, you should have a Product Manager on the engineering team to counter-balance. Project Manager's goal is to drive leadership initiatives, where as the Product Manager's goal is to guard the members of the team so they are not stretched too thin and can build a quality product.
Trasmatta 6y ago
> all report to Engineering manager In my experience, product managers have never reported to an engineering manager. Which is probably part of the problem, and why this type of hierarchy can lead to a "3 managers" type scenario. The product manager, senior dev / tech lead, and engineering manager all have some management responsibilities. When the separation of responsibility is not clearly delineated, so the regular team members are left in an awkward position of having 3 different people they have to report to, and often get conflicting feedback from each of them.
iandanforth 6y ago
Basically this, for us it was: Eng Manager <- Devs, Project Manager Product manager -- UI/UX (same org not direct reports) QA (Had their own reporting structure)

MobileVet 6y ago

'I have eight managers Bob' - Peter 'Eight?' - Bob 'Eight Bob' - Peter

ska 6y ago

> 1 person handle the role of product, project, and engineering manager with 100% focus on the project and team. This is incredibly difficult to get right. A good product manager needs to be spending time "in the field", sometimes literally but always in terms of focus. A good engineering manager has to be spending time "in the lab", again literally & figuratively. These two things are in contention, and balancing them properly in one person is very difficult. Anyone who has project management skills can do that part, but trick is dedicating enough time to it. On a complicated project, this can easily become a full time job. matrix management has it's own challenges (not that this is the only way to handle it) but your contention that because there are 3 "managers" involved means that everyone "has" 3 managers just isn't true. Most of this stuff is about responsibilities, not chain-of-command.

ip26 6y ago

I don't think the IC's have 3 managers in this arrangement. The product manager & engineering manager work together in a customer-provider relationship, while the project manager acts as a sort of facilitator and metrics collector, & doesn't hold direct authority over the IC's.