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Are people forgetting that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East? The US enjoys a very healthy military relationship with Israel because of its advanc

Are people forgetting that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East? The US enjoys a very healthy military relationship with Israel because of its advanced technology and its strategic location....all religion aside.

scott_s 15y ago
While Israel does have strategic importance to the US, I think that's Israel's status in US foreign policy is disproportionate to that strategic need. I don't think it's controversial to say that many people - and politicians - feel a moral imperative to help Israel. I think it's inaccurate to characterize the relationship between the two countries without considering that perceived imperative.
eru 15y ago
> Are people forgetting that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East? What happened to Turkey?
- tkahn6 15y ago
  Seeing as Turkey is vying for a position in the EU and it's part of numerous European councils, Turkey isn't generally considered a Middle Eastern country.
  - patrickas 15y ago
    OK then what happened to Lebanon ;-)
    - tkahn6 15y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index According to that Israel is a 'Flawed democracy' and Lebanon is a 'Hybrid regime'. I cannot say I'm familiar with the political system in Lebanon, but I do know they've been having some major issues with their government lately. IIRC they haven't had a functioning executive branch since they agreed to comply with the UN investigation into the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri. Hezbollah (effectively the military of Lebanon and a very strong political power) is extremely unhappy with this because the allegation is that they assassinated him.
  - tibbon 15y ago
    I thought we brought democracy to Iraq (or I hope that's what we got out of that), and Egypt is holding their first election in forever in November. The area's getting better overall in terms of democracy it would seem, with or without our protection of them.
    - Tycho 15y ago
      It strikes me that one reason surrounding regimes are/were so hostile towards Israel is because they don't want their own people 'getting ideas.'
      - maayank 15y ago
        You're being downmodded, but it is a fairly documented point[1] and a very valid one in "Middle Eastern studies" academic circles[2]. [1] quick googling turned for example http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/04/01/full-comment-forum-israeli-scapegoat-fails-arab-autocrats/ http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/04/01/full-comment-... [2] due to time constraints I can't find recitations now, so take it at face value. Sorry. EDIT: eh, life just gave a brilliant new example: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/michaelweiss/100092061/breaking-syrian-state-documents-show-assad-orchestrated-nakba-day-raids-on-golan-heights/ http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/michaelweiss/100092061/bre...
blahedo 15y ago
> "...the only democracy in the Middle East? ...all religion aside." One problem is that it's difficult to consider the question of Israel being a "democracy" while setting aside "all religion". (Short version: there are a lot of people in occupied territories that don't have a vote.) Another is that there is a very good question of just how much can you let a country get away with just because they are or claim to be a democracy? That amount is surely limited (right?), but the question is, how much?
- tkahn6 15y ago
  > there are a lot of people in occupied territories that don't have a vote. Yes they do. In their own government(s). What are you talking about? Edit: Oh gosh... downvoted? I feel as though I am on reddit. Edit 2: They voted for Fatah and Hamas. They do get to vote - in their own elections. (Though not for a few years because Hamas and Fatah have postponed elections multiple times)
- chopsueyar 15y ago
  there are a lot of people in occupied territories that don't have a vote By your logic, the United States is not a democracy because illegal aliens cannot vote in US elections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship
tibbon 15y ago
Iraq? Egypt (election this fall)?

scott_s 15y ago

While Israel does have strategic importance to the US, I think that's Israel's status in US foreign policy is disproportionate to that strategic need. I don't think it's controversial to say that many people - and politicians - feel a moral imperative to help Israel. I think it's inaccurate to characterize the relationship between the two countries without considering that perceived imperative.

eru 15y ago

> Are people forgetting that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East? What happened to Turkey?

tkahn6 15y ago
Seeing as Turkey is vying for a position in the EU and it's part of numerous European councils, Turkey isn't generally considered a Middle Eastern country.
- patrickas 15y ago
  OK then what happened to Lebanon ;-)
  - tkahn6 15y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index According to that Israel is a 'Flawed democracy' and Lebanon is a 'Hybrid regime'. I cannot say I'm familiar with the political system in Lebanon, but I do know they've been having some major issues with their government lately. IIRC they haven't had a functioning executive branch since they agreed to comply with the UN investigation into the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri. Hezbollah (effectively the military of Lebanon and a very strong political power) is extremely unhappy with this because the allegation is that they assassinated him.
- tibbon 15y ago
  I thought we brought democracy to Iraq (or I hope that's what we got out of that), and Egypt is holding their first election in forever in November. The area's getting better overall in terms of democracy it would seem, with or without our protection of them.
  - Tycho 15y ago
    It strikes me that one reason surrounding regimes are/were so hostile towards Israel is because they don't want their own people 'getting ideas.'
    - maayank 15y ago
      You're being downmodded, but it is a fairly documented point[1] and a very valid one in "Middle Eastern studies" academic circles[2]. [1] quick googling turned for example http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/04/01/full-comment-forum-israeli-scapegoat-fails-arab-autocrats/ http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/04/01/full-comment-... [2] due to time constraints I can't find recitations now, so take it at face value. Sorry. EDIT: eh, life just gave a brilliant new example: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/michaelweiss/100092061/breaking-syrian-state-documents-show-assad-orchestrated-nakba-day-raids-on-golan-heights/ http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/michaelweiss/100092061/bre...

blahedo 15y ago

> "...the only democracy in the Middle East? ...all religion aside." One problem is that it's difficult to consider the question of Israel being a "democracy" while setting aside "all religion". (Short version: there are a lot of people in occupied territories that don't have a vote.) Another is that there is a very good question of just how much can you let a country get away with just because they are or claim to be a democracy? That amount is surely limited (right?), but the question is, how much?

tkahn6 15y ago
> there are a lot of people in occupied territories that don't have a vote. Yes they do. In their own government(s). What are you talking about? Edit: Oh gosh... downvoted? I feel as though I am on reddit. Edit 2: They voted for Fatah and Hamas. They do get to vote - in their own elections. (Though not for a few years because Hamas and Fatah have postponed elections multiple times)
chopsueyar 15y ago
there are a lot of people in occupied territories that don't have a vote By your logic, the United States is not a democracy because illegal aliens cannot vote in US elections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship

tibbon 15y ago

Iraq? Egypt (election this fall)?