8 ms·

Tesla's build quality is closer to the kind of $50 Android phone you find on wish.com than it is to Apple's. I have no idea how Bloomberg clickbait articles end

Tesla's build quality is closer to the kind of $50 Android phone you find on wish.com than it is to Apple's. I have no idea how Bloomberg clickbait articles end up on here so often, but this particular one is a new low - an article about VW that they've shoehorned both Tesla and Apple into for the clicks.

arcticbull 6y ago
Not to mention this belies a misunderstanding of Apple's business model. Tesla owns 80% of the electric car market and makes zero profit. That sounds an awful lot like Android's place in the market (72% market share, 30% of profit share) [1] Samsung only has 17% profit share - nobody else makes any money. Apple's always owned the entirety of the profit in the entire global smartphone space. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2019/12/22/global-phone-profits-apple-66-samsung-17-everyone-else-unlucky-13/?sh=53264cb52ff3 https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2019/12/22/global-...
- Gravityloss 6y ago
  Tesla had about 18% market share in October and it's probably gone down from there. https://electrek.co/2020/10/30/tesla-tsla-market-share-global-ev-sales-change/ https://electrek.co/2020/10/30/tesla-tsla-market-share-globa...
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Indeed, I was using the US numbers [1] - my bad. [1] https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-cars-ev-registrations-us/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-cars-ev-registratio...
  - agumonkey 6y ago
    I wonder if the alleged China made 25000$ model will change that.
    - Gravityloss 6y ago
      And the Berlin gigafactory. It seems the casting machines are already being installed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8kjwRExLl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8kjwRExLl0
- jcims 6y ago
  How is investment in growth (e.g. gigafactory construction) recognized financially?
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    I'm more curious how investment of carbon credits (the only source of profit) which are soon to no longer be required by their competitors, in speculative bubbles (e.g. Bitcoin) which are primarily fueled by Chinese coal plants is accounted for. I'd love to have coffee with their Master of Coin.
    - mavhc 6y ago
      There's been no increase in coal usage in China in 10 years though
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        Sounds like there could have been a coal decrease. That's not a great argument IMO as they have been investing heavily in alternative energy production, especially hydro and solar. Coal usage needs to go down to zero, and anything that impedes that process is maddening to see.
  - marvin 6y ago
    It's recognized by investors who try to make an honest assessment in order to make good investment decisions. Thankfully, this is not a popularity contest. By any reasonable non-pedantic measure, Tesla has actually been quite profitable over the last couple of years. They've put their entire profit towards building additional production capacity. Of course, they've also used the current investment climate to make capital raises that are bigger than their profits. IIRC, Tesla have reported profit and cashflow minus capital spending for the last few years, and these numbers show what you expect: A business that's very profitable from a per-unit perspective. The market cap is a different question, but let's treat that as a separate question.
jcims 6y ago
I had a short infatuation with Audis (VW) until I owned them. My S5 got hauled off by Carvana on Monday and my wife's SQ5 just got traded in on a Ford yesterday. Fit and finish was impeccable and certainly better than Tesla's, but they were constantly breaking in ridiculous ways. My advice, never ever own one outside of warranty unless it's >20 years old and you can wrench on it yourself. YMMV of course.
- arethuza 6y ago
  My wife had an Audi as company car for a while - which kept breaking. Meanwhile I've had VWs and now Skodas for years and never had a problem.
  - jcims 6y ago
    As long as they keep it simple they do OK. Audis are rolling wiring harnesses.
  - nobleach 6y ago
    For VWs, it's always the electrical systems.... If it's 10 years old, I can almost guarantee it's going to have problems. With that said, you'll always see the rouge 1999 Jetta tooling around town, and either the owner got really lucky, or they've worked on it.
    - jcims 6y ago
      Sister in law had a ~’04 Jetta. Mechanically it was sound, but it did have a continuous stream of electrical problems. My nephew had an ‘09 CC that blew a fuel pump and then blew up an engine. Nice car otherwise.
      - arethuza 6y ago
        The only car we've had that had electrical problems was a Toyota - where the instruments would keep cutting out. Turns out this was caused by the sunroof... Edit: Sunroof leaked, water collected at lowest point inside car where Toyota had decided to locate electrical connectors that fed the instruments.
Shadonototro 6y ago
the journalist probably own some $TSLA
arcanon 6y ago
What are you smoking? Apple has had a ton of problems with quality on their recent airpods max launch, widely documented. Also remember the apple butterfly switch keyboard fiasco?? Sony has much better quality than Apple right now.
- drcongo 6y ago
  Where did Sony come into this?! Were there not enough entirely unrelated brands in the headline for you?

arcticbull 6y ago

Not to mention this belies a misunderstanding of Apple's business model. Tesla owns 80% of the electric car market and makes zero profit. That sounds an awful lot like Android's place in the market (72% market share, 30% of profit share) [1] Samsung only has 17% profit share - nobody else makes any money. Apple's always owned the entirety of the profit in the entire global smartphone space. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2019/12/22/global-phone-profits-apple-66-samsung-17-everyone-else-unlucky-13/?sh=53264cb52ff3 https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2019/12/22/global-...

Gravityloss 6y ago
Tesla had about 18% market share in October and it's probably gone down from there. https://electrek.co/2020/10/30/tesla-tsla-market-share-global-ev-sales-change/ https://electrek.co/2020/10/30/tesla-tsla-market-share-globa...
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Indeed, I was using the US numbers [1] - my bad. [1] https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-cars-ev-registrations-us/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-cars-ev-registratio...
- agumonkey 6y ago
  I wonder if the alleged China made 25000$ model will change that.
  - Gravityloss 6y ago
    And the Berlin gigafactory. It seems the casting machines are already being installed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8kjwRExLl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8kjwRExLl0
jcims 6y ago
How is investment in growth (e.g. gigafactory construction) recognized financially?
- arcticbull 6y ago
  I'm more curious how investment of carbon credits (the only source of profit) which are soon to no longer be required by their competitors, in speculative bubbles (e.g. Bitcoin) which are primarily fueled by Chinese coal plants is accounted for. I'd love to have coffee with their Master of Coin.
  - mavhc 6y ago
    There's been no increase in coal usage in China in 10 years though
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      Sounds like there could have been a coal decrease. That's not a great argument IMO as they have been investing heavily in alternative energy production, especially hydro and solar. Coal usage needs to go down to zero, and anything that impedes that process is maddening to see.
- marvin 6y ago
  It's recognized by investors who try to make an honest assessment in order to make good investment decisions. Thankfully, this is not a popularity contest. By any reasonable non-pedantic measure, Tesla has actually been quite profitable over the last couple of years. They've put their entire profit towards building additional production capacity. Of course, they've also used the current investment climate to make capital raises that are bigger than their profits. IIRC, Tesla have reported profit and cashflow minus capital spending for the last few years, and these numbers show what you expect: A business that's very profitable from a per-unit perspective. The market cap is a different question, but let's treat that as a separate question.

jcims 6y ago

I had a short infatuation with Audis (VW) until I owned them. My S5 got hauled off by Carvana on Monday and my wife's SQ5 just got traded in on a Ford yesterday. Fit and finish was impeccable and certainly better than Tesla's, but they were constantly breaking in ridiculous ways. My advice, never ever own one outside of warranty unless it's >20 years old and you can wrench on it yourself. YMMV of course.

arethuza 6y ago
My wife had an Audi as company car for a while - which kept breaking. Meanwhile I've had VWs and now Skodas for years and never had a problem.
- jcims 6y ago
  As long as they keep it simple they do OK. Audis are rolling wiring harnesses.
- nobleach 6y ago
  For VWs, it's always the electrical systems.... If it's 10 years old, I can almost guarantee it's going to have problems. With that said, you'll always see the rouge 1999 Jetta tooling around town, and either the owner got really lucky, or they've worked on it.
  - jcims 6y ago
    Sister in law had a ~’04 Jetta. Mechanically it was sound, but it did have a continuous stream of electrical problems. My nephew had an ‘09 CC that blew a fuel pump and then blew up an engine. Nice car otherwise.
    - arethuza 6y ago
      The only car we've had that had electrical problems was a Toyota - where the instruments would keep cutting out. Turns out this was caused by the sunroof... Edit: Sunroof leaked, water collected at lowest point inside car where Toyota had decided to locate electrical connectors that fed the instruments.

Shadonototro 6y ago

the journalist probably own some $TSLA

arcanon 6y ago

What are you smoking? Apple has had a ton of problems with quality on their recent airpods max launch, widely documented. Also remember the apple butterfly switch keyboard fiasco?? Sony has much better quality than Apple right now.

drcongo 6y ago
Where did Sony come into this?! Were there not enough entirely unrelated brands in the headline for you?