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> Aren't you worried that by applying political labels like 'left' (or equally often seen in the US context: 'liberal') for something that does not really repre
by vmception 6y ago
> Aren't you worried that by applying political labels like 'left' (or equally often seen in the US context: 'liberal') for something that does not really represent that political ideology
I don't have the experience of any other group doing this. I agree that it is not inherently a political ideology.
The people involved proudly proclaim to be left and liberal. I think it is important to say that because I know people in other parts of the country that see these as insults and would be surprised to know that people commonly self-identify as these terms.
I find that this group thinks their behavior is better and more helpful than apathy, "silence", and the idea of rampant exclusionary hate from the right. When its really not better, its different, but its not more helpful. There is absolutely a constant threat from people afraid of bird watchers in a park, people that blend into their ranks and are willing to weaponize their understanding of race, two seconds after donating to the Democratic Party.
- Freak_NL 6y agoThe problem lies not in that you are wrong in concluding that these people are adherents of leftists ideologies (most are), but that you are falling for the pars pro toto fallacy: people who think that 'master' is an offensive word to use in a source code repository are 'left/liberal', thus all or most of 'the left/liberals' are such people. You are saying 'this group thinks' as if all people who would identify as adhering to leftist ideologies (from the extremes to common social democracy) act like this. You are trying to stuff people into boxes: you are either team A or team B. That is polarization; something we can sorely do without.
- hayd 6y agoThe problem lies that there is not enough (any?) push back from this kind of garbage (and specifically in this case) from the 'left/liberals'. There needs to be push-back if they [those left/liberals not in this camp] want to disassociate. But where is it? I don't think there is appetite for this argument. I know many of left/liberal-types (in the Bay Area) all who either believe, or accept this as silly but somehow think it is meaningful to some people and so should be gone along with...
- seibelj 6y agoThe podcast Blocked and Reported is founded by liberals who are tired of this. Highly recommend.
- marcus_holmes 6y agoAgain, availability bias. The people screaming the loudest about this are also screaming the loudest about other Left/Liberal issues. The normal left-leaning folks don't get heard. It's pretty natural to conclude that this group represents the whole. I'm also convinced that the screamers aren't really interested in stopping black people from being offended (let alone actually harassed/murdered). I think they're much more interested in getting recognition for fighting the fight.
- kodah 6y agoI think you're right. I'm an independent and I'm guilty of doing this to right and left leaning folk, but I've done it because I believe that the people screaming will only listen to people within their ideological interests. It was my way of making them accountable for their compatriots that are loud enough for me to notice. I've also stopped doing this because it's not really effective. People don't feel like they should be responsible for outliers and I somewhat agree, but don't know how to solve the problem of vocal trouble makers.
- vmception 6y agoYou are correct and I understand the logical flaw. Its just the 99% correlation with my life experience, observations of real impactful polarization, which leave me without another way to describe it. Be my guest in rewriting it more accurately.
- vcxy 6y agoI guess some of us quiet liberals should be less quiet then. Hi, I'm in your 1%.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- pydry 6y ago>The people involved proudly proclaim to be left and liberal. I don't think Microsoft do claim that, nor is that really why they did this. Microsoft is a profit seeking entity that is trying to maximize its profit and goodwill (an intangible asset) at the same time. Thus for them the best moves are those which: * Have minimal cost. * Distract people away from profitable dirty laundry which doesn't attract goodwill (e.g. concentration camp contracts). * Buy them some goodwill among some people - especially through the mechanism of "outrage marketing" (people who by dint of attacking "the right" when they attack this will naturally defend Microsoft - a bit like how Nike used colin Kaepernick). They did this because "change master to main" appeared in a local maxima that maximized these three conditions. This is being reflected all around the corporate sphere because what applies to Microsoft applies to a lot of other companies.
- marcus_holmes 6y agoJust trying to avoid getting Twitter dogpiled
- hanklazard 6y agoYeah, that definitely seems to be a big part of it. And I don’t understand. Okay so your company is the target of some activists on Twitter for a few days. End of the world? Maybe I just can’t understand what it’s like to lead a big company. Just abut the only company to handle one of these situations in a way that seems rational to me is Trader Joe’s. Some people on Twitter decided that having a burrito labeled “Trader Jose” was a horrendous form of cultural appropriation and demanded the company change all products with this kind of word play in branding. TJ’s considered it and just basically said “no, move along” and the whole woke twitterverse moved on to some other target. https://www.google.com/amp/s/sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/07/31/trader-joes-says-no-to-changing-ethnic-sounding-label-names/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/...
- nomdep 6y agoExactly like any bully. Which is what these people are.