5 ms·

Almost all EU has banned AZ because of blood cluttering sideeffects. Happens in perfectly healthy humans.

nindalf 6y ago
It’s clotting, not cluttering. And that decision was taken by politicians keen to cover their ass, afraid of idiotic anti-vaxxers. Here’s what the EU regulator says. The European Medicines Agency is 'firmly convinced' benefits outweigh risks - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56411561 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56411561
- Uberphallus 6y ago
  > And that decision was taken by politicians keen to cover their ass, afraid of idiotic anti-vaxxers. It's more of the EU playing "well, we didn't want it anyway" after getting the short end of the stick in AZ vaccine production (the EU has been a net exporter of AZ vaccine, but AZ deliveries are lagging behind significantly compared to UK).
  - youngtaff 6y ago
    They didn't get the short stick. EU deliveries of the AZ vaccine are behind the UK ones because they started production at least 3 months later and it takes time to debug pharmaceutical plants for new drugs. Even in the UK the production process is still inconsistent with fluctuating yields
    - FranzFerdiNaN 6y ago
      One of the production places in the EU mentioned in the EU contract still isnt up and running because AZ has refused to file the proper paperwork to be able to use it. Its insane.
      - youngtaff 6y ago
        Is that Halix in NL - https://www.politico.eu/article/breton-no-astrazeneca-jabs-exported-from-netherlands-after-eu-export-controls/ https://www.politico.eu/article/breton-no-astrazeneca-jabs-e...
    - planetree 6y ago
      UK got many of its initial doses from plants in the EU (Netherlands and Belgium).
- tchalla 6y ago
  The decision is also due to legal issues, at least in Germany. The number of cases for clots exceed the threshold. The govt has no choice to stop or face lawsuits since it is a state vaccination program.
  - guilhas 6y ago
    If that is the case, why then isn't the Pfizer also suspended? Since it generated the same deaths
    - tchalla 6y ago
      The number of cases or deaths are conditional on the cases in the general population, it’s not an absolute number. The cases for AZ - 7 cerebral vein thombrosis in 1.6M vaccinations - which is higher than in general population. AZ will get back on the market with a restricted use or a warning label.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  > idiotic anti-vaxxers You mean, people concerned with their health and the fact that these vaccines were rushed, usually without adequate public disclosure of risks?
- FranzFerdiNaN 6y ago
  Its not done by politicians. Its done by the national agencies that investigate and approve medicines.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
bawolff 6y ago
This is false. Some countries have temporary suspended using it well they investigate a very small number of people who got blood clots, which very well might be random chance. Nobody has permenently banned and in all probability the clots are a coincidence (healthy people get blood clots sometimes) and the suspension will likely be reversed once it is fully investigated.
- virgilp 6y ago
  On one hand, you are right. On the other, even Sweden suspended it (Astra-Zeneca is a British-Swedish company). I wish HN would stop pretending everything is fine with this vaccine - it might really be problematic. https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-sweden-vaccine/sweden-suspends-use-of-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-idUSL8N2L931W https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-sweden-va...
  - bawolff 6y ago
    I don't see why sweden suspending it makes any more difference than any other county. They're a non-corrupt first world country. I doubt they play favourites because its a domestic company. Anyways, im not saying don't investigate, we should investigate all possible side effects. However so far it sounds more like a coincidence so im not worried. Healthy people get sick randomly sometimes when you're looking at groups of millions of people. Sometimes by chance it will happen near when they got the vaccine. Its important to keep perspective.
    - virgilp 6y ago
      There's been plenty of suggestion that other EU countries' decision to suspend AZ is somehow a political decision, and not primarily motivated by health concerns. > Its important to keep perspective. Yes, it is - on both sides. Just because, as someone here said, "I'm a lever puller" doesn't automatically mean that your opinion is better and more informed than that of health authorities across EU. (note that I'm not accusing you personally of being a "lever puller", I'm just venting about what I perceive to be HN propensity to take risks on other people and dismiss concerns).
grey-area 6y ago
The EMA disagrees, and this is a really foolish move IMO which will directly lead to thousands or tens of thousands more people dying from coronavirus across Europe.
- mns 6y ago
  Well, the vaccine was halted in Germany because the Paul-Ehrlich-Institut, which is not a political entity, had this to say: "Compared to the status on 11 March 2021, additional cases (as of Monday, 15 March 2021) have now been reported in Germany. Analysing the new data status, the experts of the Paul-Ehrlich-Institut now see a striking accumulation of a special form of very rare cerebral vein thrombosis (sinus vein thrombosis) in connection with a deficiency of blood platelets (thrombocytopenia) and bleeding in temporal proximity to vaccinations with the COVID-19 vaccine AstraZeneca. The data are being further analysed and evaluated by the European Medicines Agency (EMA). Vaccinations with AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine in Germany will be suspended until the EMA's evaluation is complete. Today's decision affects both initial and follow-up vaccinations." These things are not done lightly.
  - sid6376 6y ago
    While they may not be being done lightly, the reasoning is still based on legal concerns rather than medical ones. https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1371829918338801669 https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/13718299183388016...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- severino 6y ago
  Maybe this kind of vaccines under suspicion should be reserved for those age segments more vulnerable to the virus? This way we avoid deaths due to Covid and at the same time don't put healthy individuals at risk that would have only mild symptoms due to Covid.
unionpivo 6y ago
Irecived my first doze previous week, I was supposed to get next doze in 3 weeks, but now its delivery is suspended here. Not sure what will happen, if they do pull it alltogether, get 2 doses of some other vaccine ?

It’s clotting, not cluttering. And that decision was taken by politicians keen to cover their ass, afraid of idiotic anti-vaxxers. Here’s what the EU regulator says. The European Medicines Agency is 'firmly convinced' benefits outweigh risks - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56411561 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56411561

Uberphallus 6y ago
> And that decision was taken by politicians keen to cover their ass, afraid of idiotic anti-vaxxers. It's more of the EU playing "well, we didn't want it anyway" after getting the short end of the stick in AZ vaccine production (the EU has been a net exporter of AZ vaccine, but AZ deliveries are lagging behind significantly compared to UK).
- youngtaff 6y ago
  They didn't get the short stick. EU deliveries of the AZ vaccine are behind the UK ones because they started production at least 3 months later and it takes time to debug pharmaceutical plants for new drugs. Even in the UK the production process is still inconsistent with fluctuating yields
  - FranzFerdiNaN 6y ago
    One of the production places in the EU mentioned in the EU contract still isnt up and running because AZ has refused to file the proper paperwork to be able to use it. Its insane.
    - youngtaff 6y ago
      Is that Halix in NL - https://www.politico.eu/article/breton-no-astrazeneca-jabs-exported-from-netherlands-after-eu-export-controls/ https://www.politico.eu/article/breton-no-astrazeneca-jabs-e...
  - planetree 6y ago
    UK got many of its initial doses from plants in the EU (Netherlands and Belgium).
tchalla 6y ago
The decision is also due to legal issues, at least in Germany. The number of cases for clots exceed the threshold. The govt has no choice to stop or face lawsuits since it is a state vaccination program.
- guilhas 6y ago
  If that is the case, why then isn't the Pfizer also suspended? Since it generated the same deaths
  - tchalla 6y ago
    The number of cases or deaths are conditional on the cases in the general population, it’s not an absolute number. The cases for AZ - 7 cerebral vein thombrosis in 1.6M vaccinations - which is higher than in general population. AZ will get back on the market with a restricted use or a warning label.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> idiotic anti-vaxxers You mean, people concerned with their health and the fact that these vaccines were rushed, usually without adequate public disclosure of risks?
FranzFerdiNaN 6y ago
Its not done by politicians. Its done by the national agencies that investigate and approve medicines.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

bawolff 6y ago

This is false. Some countries have temporary suspended using it well they investigate a very small number of people who got blood clots, which very well might be random chance. Nobody has permenently banned and in all probability the clots are a coincidence (healthy people get blood clots sometimes) and the suspension will likely be reversed once it is fully investigated.

virgilp 6y ago
On one hand, you are right. On the other, even Sweden suspended it (Astra-Zeneca is a British-Swedish company). I wish HN would stop pretending everything is fine with this vaccine - it might really be problematic. https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-sweden-vaccine/sweden-suspends-use-of-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-idUSL8N2L931W https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-sweden-va...
- bawolff 6y ago
  I don't see why sweden suspending it makes any more difference than any other county. They're a non-corrupt first world country. I doubt they play favourites because its a domestic company. Anyways, im not saying don't investigate, we should investigate all possible side effects. However so far it sounds more like a coincidence so im not worried. Healthy people get sick randomly sometimes when you're looking at groups of millions of people. Sometimes by chance it will happen near when they got the vaccine. Its important to keep perspective.
  - virgilp 6y ago
    There's been plenty of suggestion that other EU countries' decision to suspend AZ is somehow a political decision, and not primarily motivated by health concerns. > Its important to keep perspective. Yes, it is - on both sides. Just because, as someone here said, "I'm a lever puller" doesn't automatically mean that your opinion is better and more informed than that of health authorities across EU. (note that I'm not accusing you personally of being a "lever puller", I'm just venting about what I perceive to be HN propensity to take risks on other people and dismiss concerns).

grey-area 6y ago

The EMA disagrees, and this is a really foolish move IMO which will directly lead to thousands or tens of thousands more people dying from coronavirus across Europe.

mns 6y ago
Well, the vaccine was halted in Germany because the Paul-Ehrlich-Institut, which is not a political entity, had this to say: "Compared to the status on 11 March 2021, additional cases (as of Monday, 15 March 2021) have now been reported in Germany. Analysing the new data status, the experts of the Paul-Ehrlich-Institut now see a striking accumulation of a special form of very rare cerebral vein thrombosis (sinus vein thrombosis) in connection with a deficiency of blood platelets (thrombocytopenia) and bleeding in temporal proximity to vaccinations with the COVID-19 vaccine AstraZeneca. The data are being further analysed and evaluated by the European Medicines Agency (EMA). Vaccinations with AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine in Germany will be suspended until the EMA's evaluation is complete. Today's decision affects both initial and follow-up vaccinations." These things are not done lightly.
- sid6376 6y ago
  While they may not be being done lightly, the reasoning is still based on legal concerns rather than medical ones. https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1371829918338801669 https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/13718299183388016...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
severino 6y ago
Maybe this kind of vaccines under suspicion should be reserved for those age segments more vulnerable to the virus? This way we avoid deaths due to Covid and at the same time don't put healthy individuals at risk that would have only mild symptoms due to Covid.

unionpivo 6y ago

Irecived my first doze previous week, I was supposed to get next doze in 3 weeks, but now its delivery is suspended here. Not sure what will happen, if they do pull it alltogether, get 2 doses of some other vaccine ?