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Intensive retreats aren't to be underestimated. It's a serious spiritual path that isn't designed to make one well adjusted to this world right away. I think th

by calt 6y ago

Intensive retreats aren't to be underestimated. It's a serious spiritual path that isn't designed to make one well adjusted to this world right away. I think the end result can be a fully integrated self actualized person, but the traditional view is that it might take lifetimes. Lifetimes are not what most westerners are (or should be, imho) willing to sacrifice. Top tier meditation institutions in the west and in Asia are not ignorant of meditation induced psychosis and they have ways of dealing with it. Everyone who claims all meditation is great and nothing bad can happen is ignorant. Some of my most respected meditation teachers are known for recommending that people don't take up intensive retreats if they feel they have a choice in the matter. If it feel unavoidable, then do it. If it's just something you want to try, don't. I can immediately recall at least 4 saying this. However, if 20 minutes of mindfulness a day sets you off into strange psychological territory, then I have a hard time believing that meditation was at fault. The "dosage" simply isn't high enough to be the key factor.

travisjungroth 6y ago
> Everyone who claims all meditation is great and nothing bad can happen is ignorant. Or lying. I doubt the meditation center in the article updated the claims on their site after these events.
- h0l0cube 6y ago
  The Goenka schools provide a questionnaire to determine mental health and any medications the student will need. Each teacher is different in who they will let in, and all those schools are volunteer run. I can see that some teachers could be reckless with course admissions, but all teachers would have managed multiple courses before, and would know the difficulties for everyone if they let someone in who has a history of mental illness. It's not great situation for anyone if any student enters psychosis on a silent retreat, not the teacher/manager/other volunteers/other students. Edit: Also it's tricky if your students are motivated enough to get in that they'll lie. https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/6590720 https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards...
  - calt 6y ago
    The Goenka centers do have a filtering questionnaire, but I think they tend to just get so incredibly much wrong on their handling of psychological problems. It's infuriating. I will recommend that a friend does one, after giving some warnings, and making sure to talk with them afterwards, but I wouldn't blindly recommend anybody do one.
    - h0l0cube 6y ago
      I imagine mental health issues are handled differently between schools and within them by the different teachers, but it's probably something that could be improved upon. There's probably also some merit to 'riding out the storm' for some people, but anyone with a family history of psychosis, or unmanageable psychiatric illness might want to think twice about attending, or at least be prepared to leave the course at first signs of trouble.
sammalloy 6y ago
> However, if 20 minutes of mindfulness a day sets you off into strange psychological territory, then u have a hard time believing that meditation was at fault About ten years ago, I experimented doing 20 minutes in the morning and an additional 20 minutes in the early evening. I did this for about six months, and I may have overdid it, because some very, very strange things began to happen. I stopped meditating after a particularly weird and frightening experience which I will now describe: I was entirely stone cold sober, driving my car on the highway talking to a friend in the passenger seat, when suddenly I found myself looking down at the planet, from what I can only describe as an orbital altitude of somewhere around 400 km or so, while at the same time, I continued to drive the car and have a discussion! Part of my consciousness (or perception) seemed to momentarily bifurcate and be somewhere else, in this case, floating high above the Earth. That was the day I stopped meditating. Apparently this is a known attainment in certain circles that believe in this kind of thing (I'm still a skeptic at heart) but being in two places at once wasn't my cup of tea. I have a hard enough time as it is focusing on the road in front of me! I wouldn't say this is the only strange thing I experienced; there's a lot of them to speak of, but that was certainly the strangest of them all. I've taken much more pleasure and satisfaction from lucid dreaming instead, which is something I still do to this day.
- Trasmatta 6y ago
  That's a fascinating experience, but also scary, thanks for sharing. It's interesting how meditation can lead you to altered states of consciousness that are in some manners extremely similar to psychedelics. > I've taken much more pleasure and satisfaction from lucid dreaming instead, which is something I still do to this day. I feel like the potential therapeutic benefits of lucid dreaming are incredibly unexplored. Maybe partially because it can be difficult and inconsistent to induce them, especially depending on the person. I don't know if there's any one technique that works well for everyone.
  - sammalloy 6y ago
    The WBTB (wake back to bed) method works for about 90% of people.
  - 6y ago

by calt 6y ago

travisjungroth 6y ago

> Everyone who claims all meditation is great and nothing bad can happen is ignorant. Or lying. I doubt the meditation center in the article updated the claims on their site after these events.

h0l0cube 6y ago
The Goenka schools provide a questionnaire to determine mental health and any medications the student will need. Each teacher is different in who they will let in, and all those schools are volunteer run. I can see that some teachers could be reckless with course admissions, but all teachers would have managed multiple courses before, and would know the difficulties for everyone if they let someone in who has a history of mental illness. It's not great situation for anyone if any student enters psychosis on a silent retreat, not the teacher/manager/other volunteers/other students. Edit: Also it's tricky if your students are motivated enough to get in that they'll lie. https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/6590720 https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards...
- calt 6y ago
  The Goenka centers do have a filtering questionnaire, but I think they tend to just get so incredibly much wrong on their handling of psychological problems. It's infuriating. I will recommend that a friend does one, after giving some warnings, and making sure to talk with them afterwards, but I wouldn't blindly recommend anybody do one.
  - h0l0cube 6y ago
    I imagine mental health issues are handled differently between schools and within them by the different teachers, but it's probably something that could be improved upon. There's probably also some merit to 'riding out the storm' for some people, but anyone with a family history of psychosis, or unmanageable psychiatric illness might want to think twice about attending, or at least be prepared to leave the course at first signs of trouble.

sammalloy 6y ago

> However, if 20 minutes of mindfulness a day sets you off into strange psychological territory, then u have a hard time believing that meditation was at fault About ten years ago, I experimented doing 20 minutes in the morning and an additional 20 minutes in the early evening. I did this for about six months, and I may have overdid it, because some very, very strange things began to happen. I stopped meditating after a particularly weird and frightening experience which I will now describe: I was entirely stone cold sober, driving my car on the highway talking to a friend in the passenger seat, when suddenly I found myself looking down at the planet, from what I can only describe as an orbital altitude of somewhere around 400 km or so, while at the same time, I continued to drive the car and have a discussion! Part of my consciousness (or perception) seemed to momentarily bifurcate and be somewhere else, in this case, floating high above the Earth. That was the day I stopped meditating. Apparently this is a known attainment in certain circles that believe in this kind of thing (I'm still a skeptic at heart) but being in two places at once wasn't my cup of tea. I have a hard enough time as it is focusing on the road in front of me! I wouldn't say this is the only strange thing I experienced; there's a lot of them to speak of, but that was certainly the strangest of them all. I've taken much more pleasure and satisfaction from lucid dreaming instead, which is something I still do to this day.

Trasmatta 6y ago
That's a fascinating experience, but also scary, thanks for sharing. It's interesting how meditation can lead you to altered states of consciousness that are in some manners extremely similar to psychedelics. > I've taken much more pleasure and satisfaction from lucid dreaming instead, which is something I still do to this day. I feel like the potential therapeutic benefits of lucid dreaming are incredibly unexplored. Maybe partially because it can be difficult and inconsistent to induce them, especially depending on the person. I don't know if there's any one technique that works well for everyone.
- sammalloy 6y ago
  The WBTB (wake back to bed) method works for about 90% of people.
- 6y ago