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Even if all of this were true, there's no reason one should be pledging allegiance to the state. You can be proud of your country, your state, your city, and yo

Even if all of this were true, there's no reason one should be pledging allegiance to the state. You can be proud of your country, your state, your city, and your community but to have to make pledges in front of other people to signal your patriotism is weird to anyone who wasn't brought up within that bubble of propaganda and jingoism. Have you seen footage of North Koreans pledging their allegiance to their government? Dial that down a little and you get (some) Americans. It might seem normal to you, having been born into that bubble, but believe me the average patriotic North Korean feels the same. Patriotism is just tribalism, and while it was crucial five centuries ago, it's a cancer on any modern society.

Rule35 6y ago
> footage of North Koreans pledging their allegiance to their government You're literally just inventing stuff to get upset about. There's no dictator in America. When you pledge allegiance to the country - or when someone else does - they aren't saying they'll serve anyone's orders, they're affirming their support for something that's actually great. Whatever about the hand and heart - that's a bit demonstrative, but the sentiment is a good one - a better one than almost anywhere else. It would do you good to try to see the good, before you destroy one of the last remaining bastions of opportunity with ... whatever moral relativism you're on. > It might seem normal to you, having been born into that bubble Lol, did you just assume nonsense about my life or what. No, but I can see from outside that you're pissing on the best thing you'll ever have because it isn't perfect. You can't see that what makes it great is the intent. > Patriotism is just tribalism No, blind patriotism to any country you're stuck in, is. Patriotism to a country that tries, and succeeds, to be better than most, that's just acknowledging that you've got it good and have a duty to extend that to others. > it's a cancer on any modern society. The exact opposite. The lack of patriotism you so embody is the cancer. If America isn't good enough then which country would you work to support? Who is good enough that you won't righteously tear them down? Leave America and sponsor a migrant on the way. Let them appreciate the thing you despise.
- orf 6y ago
  You seem really, really incessantly upset about the idea that not everyone practices patriotism in the same way as you. So I think these long rambling replies do more to confirm the message you are replying to than you realise.
  - Rule35 6y ago
    > I think these long rambling replies I don't think you know what rambling means. > You seem really, really incessantly upset It's just so nice of you to care if I'm upset. I love you too. > about the idea that not everyone practices patriotism in the same way as you. No. Just saddened that they feel the need to denigrate the opportunity when there are so many clamoring to get it. So stuck in hatred of America they can't see that most of the world disagrees, and they're the ones in the bubble. Practice however you want, the hand/heart thing and the pledge are not the issue.
    - orf 6y ago
      I guess the idea that the reason the "entire of south america would move to the USA" and are "clamoring to get it" (other than, you know, geographical proximity and no funds to travel transatlantically) is in no small part due to the historical actions of the USA in destabilizing the regions where they live hasn't crossed your mind? Of course it hasn't. Those countries suck because they are not the USA. USA on top = the natural state of things. USA! USA! USA! Think critically about the actions of the country and the shadow which it casts to this day? Suck it up snowflake or get out!! It's exactly your kind of bland patriotism, devoid of any appreciation as to why things are the way they are, that the person you where replying to was talking about. And it's part of the reason as to why things are the way they are. I think perhaps you view patriotism as a core part of why America is in the position it is today, but unfortunately to think that is to ignore history. And lastly, the rest of the world doesn't really agree. I expect you'd be surprised the real damage Trump has done to the reputation of the USA abroad and how much it's tarnished the image you think you had.
      - 6y ago

Rule35 6y ago

> footage of North Koreans pledging their allegiance to their government You're literally just inventing stuff to get upset about. There's no dictator in America. When you pledge allegiance to the country - or when someone else does - they aren't saying they'll serve anyone's orders, they're affirming their support for something that's actually great. Whatever about the hand and heart - that's a bit demonstrative, but the sentiment is a good one - a better one than almost anywhere else. It would do you good to try to see the good, before you destroy one of the last remaining bastions of opportunity with ... whatever moral relativism you're on. > It might seem normal to you, having been born into that bubble Lol, did you just assume nonsense about my life or what. No, but I can see from outside that you're pissing on the best thing you'll ever have because it isn't perfect. You can't see that what makes it great is the intent. > Patriotism is just tribalism No, blind patriotism to any country you're stuck in, is. Patriotism to a country that tries, and succeeds, to be better than most, that's just acknowledging that you've got it good and have a duty to extend that to others. > it's a cancer on any modern society. The exact opposite. The lack of patriotism you so embody is the cancer. If America isn't good enough then which country would you work to support? Who is good enough that you won't righteously tear them down? Leave America and sponsor a migrant on the way. Let them appreciate the thing you despise.

orf 6y ago
You seem really, really incessantly upset about the idea that not everyone practices patriotism in the same way as you. So I think these long rambling replies do more to confirm the message you are replying to than you realise.
- Rule35 6y ago
  > I think these long rambling replies I don't think you know what rambling means. > You seem really, really incessantly upset It's just so nice of you to care if I'm upset. I love you too. > about the idea that not everyone practices patriotism in the same way as you. No. Just saddened that they feel the need to denigrate the opportunity when there are so many clamoring to get it. So stuck in hatred of America they can't see that most of the world disagrees, and they're the ones in the bubble. Practice however you want, the hand/heart thing and the pledge are not the issue.
  - orf 6y ago
    I guess the idea that the reason the "entire of south america would move to the USA" and are "clamoring to get it" (other than, you know, geographical proximity and no funds to travel transatlantically) is in no small part due to the historical actions of the USA in destabilizing the regions where they live hasn't crossed your mind? Of course it hasn't. Those countries suck because they are not the USA. USA on top = the natural state of things. USA! USA! USA! Think critically about the actions of the country and the shadow which it casts to this day? Suck it up snowflake or get out!! It's exactly your kind of bland patriotism, devoid of any appreciation as to why things are the way they are, that the person you where replying to was talking about. And it's part of the reason as to why things are the way they are. I think perhaps you view patriotism as a core part of why America is in the position it is today, but unfortunately to think that is to ignore history. And lastly, the rest of the world doesn't really agree. I expect you'd be surprised the real damage Trump has done to the reputation of the USA abroad and how much it's tarnished the image you think you had.
    - 6y ago