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“...it's centred around capital” Well, actually around value - which is different from capital. It just so happens that we use capital to trade a lot (but not

“...it's centred around capital” Well, actually around value - which is different from capital. It just so happens that we use capital to trade a lot (but not all) of what we consider to be valuable. Even in a world of abundance there would be things that are scarce but we still consider valuable. Social status for example.

sudosysgen 6y ago
Certainly, our economy is not centred around abstract value. Value for who? What kind of value? Does value rule the life of the average man, or does trading his labour for access to capital and a share of it's proceeds describe the relation one has to the economy more accurately? Trade is not what I'm discussing as an abstract concept, but instead how we structure our relationship to sustenance and work. That is centred around capital, not value - hence the word "capitalism". Which is not necessarily a bad thing, in some ways this is a good organization for things we care about, but it's not mainly about maximizing value for everyone, it came about very mechanistically.
- hntrader 6y ago
  The economy is centered around factors of production, which include labor and capital, both of which are value inputs towards meeting some need in the marketplace, and both of whose market price follows supply and demand. The more valuable the input (i.e. scarce+necessary), the higher the market price. Capital is valuable (high price) when it's needed and scarce, e.g in the junk bond market. Labor is valuable (high price) when it's needed and scarce, e.g productive software engineers. There's no sense in conceptually elevating capital above labor, or vice versa, insofar as we're attempting to understand economic systems, as they're both just factors of production. Now, that's not disagreement with Sam's point. Labor will decline in value as an input since AI will provide zero marginal cost competition to labor (effectively it'll be a massive increase in the supply of labor). More supply = less unique value = wages crater. Capital may slightly decline in value too, but at a slower rate than labor.

sudosysgen 6y ago

Certainly, our economy is not centred around abstract value. Value for who? What kind of value? Does value rule the life of the average man, or does trading his labour for access to capital and a share of it's proceeds describe the relation one has to the economy more accurately? Trade is not what I'm discussing as an abstract concept, but instead how we structure our relationship to sustenance and work. That is centred around capital, not value - hence the word "capitalism". Which is not necessarily a bad thing, in some ways this is a good organization for things we care about, but it's not mainly about maximizing value for everyone, it came about very mechanistically.

hntrader 6y ago
The economy is centered around factors of production, which include labor and capital, both of which are value inputs towards meeting some need in the marketplace, and both of whose market price follows supply and demand. The more valuable the input (i.e. scarce+necessary), the higher the market price. Capital is valuable (high price) when it's needed and scarce, e.g in the junk bond market. Labor is valuable (high price) when it's needed and scarce, e.g productive software engineers. There's no sense in conceptually elevating capital above labor, or vice versa, insofar as we're attempting to understand economic systems, as they're both just factors of production. Now, that's not disagreement with Sam's point. Labor will decline in value as an input since AI will provide zero marginal cost competition to labor (effectively it'll be a massive increase in the supply of labor). More supply = less unique value = wages crater. Capital may slightly decline in value too, but at a slower rate than labor.