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An interesting aspect is the guilty until proven innocent aspect: Rough translation of parts of the header of https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2021/03/11/oproep-s

An interesting aspect is the guilty until proven innocent aspect: Rough translation of parts of the header of https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2021/03/11/oproep-sky/ https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2021/03/11/oproep-sky/ : The federal police sent out a special 'wanted' message: All users of the encrypted Sky ECC phone have to report [...]If the phone was used for legitimate purposes, the collected data will after verification be [veiliggesteld] I don't know how to translate [veiliggesteld] as it is pretty vague. The word might be approximated as 'made safe' or 'put in a secure location', but it surely does not mean destroyed. As expected, the whole thing raises some eyebrows in privacy circles.

Griffinsauce 6y ago
Veiliggesteld would translate somewhere close to safeguarded or stored securely. Which is a strange thing to do with an innocent person's data but that is what's reported.
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nanis 6y ago
> An interesting aspect is the guilty until proven innocent aspect A few years back people considered "H.R.4681 - Intelligence Authorization Act" to be a victory in terms of limiting how long government can keep information of U.S. citizens "not wittingly"[1] captured by intelligence agencies in their hoovering activities. I thought the coincidence of the specific provisions in that law with the drive towards making sure all communications on the web is encrypted was "interesting".[2] [1]: https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2014/01/clapper-ssci/ https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2014/01/clapper-ssci/ [2]: https://www.nu42.com/2014/12/https-everywhere-and-hr4681.html https://www.nu42.com/2014/12/https-everywhere-and-hr4681.htm...
JackMcMack 6y ago
As far as I understand, they were logging the encrypted messages for a long time, but only had live access for a few weeks. My guess is they used this to intercept a large shipment (17+ ton of cocaine captured), and watch the communications after that to rapidly identify the players involved. Sky phones were set up with dedicated sims, everything else but their app blocked. There's no telephone number, email adress or other id to identify users. The app also featured self-deleting messages and post-seizure remote wiping. Besides the phone, they required an expensive subscription. If these phones keep showing up on suspects, only available via no questions asked dealers, and you can't get anything from the phones themselves, it's easier to get a court order to go after the service itself. If you can then log all encrypted messages on or near the servers, and see they're mostly going to Belgium/Netherlands, then you can try to read all messages. Either via decryption, or compromising update servers, or ... Because there's no way to identify users besides reading the messages, they asked legitimate users to come forward so their data can be excluded from the investigation.
- capableweb 6y ago
  > Because there's no way to identify users besides reading the messages, they asked legitimate users to come forward so their data can be excluded from the investigation. Excluded from the investigation but still kept and also recorded in the first place because of dragnet surveillance. If I'm not comfortable with them seeing anything because I'm not guilty of anything what do I do then?
deleted 6y ago
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Griffinsauce 6y ago

Veiliggesteld would translate somewhere close to safeguarded or stored securely. Which is a strange thing to do with an innocent person's data but that is what's reported.

deleted 6y ago
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nanis 6y ago

> An interesting aspect is the guilty until proven innocent aspect A few years back people considered "H.R.4681 - Intelligence Authorization Act" to be a victory in terms of limiting how long government can keep information of U.S. citizens "not wittingly"[1] captured by intelligence agencies in their hoovering activities. I thought the coincidence of the specific provisions in that law with the drive towards making sure all communications on the web is encrypted was "interesting".[2] [1]: https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2014/01/clapper-ssci/ https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2014/01/clapper-ssci/ [2]: https://www.nu42.com/2014/12/https-everywhere-and-hr4681.html https://www.nu42.com/2014/12/https-everywhere-and-hr4681.htm...

JackMcMack 6y ago

As far as I understand, they were logging the encrypted messages for a long time, but only had live access for a few weeks. My guess is they used this to intercept a large shipment (17+ ton of cocaine captured), and watch the communications after that to rapidly identify the players involved. Sky phones were set up with dedicated sims, everything else but their app blocked. There's no telephone number, email adress or other id to identify users. The app also featured self-deleting messages and post-seizure remote wiping. Besides the phone, they required an expensive subscription. If these phones keep showing up on suspects, only available via no questions asked dealers, and you can't get anything from the phones themselves, it's easier to get a court order to go after the service itself. If you can then log all encrypted messages on or near the servers, and see they're mostly going to Belgium/Netherlands, then you can try to read all messages. Either via decryption, or compromising update servers, or ... Because there's no way to identify users besides reading the messages, they asked legitimate users to come forward so their data can be excluded from the investigation.

capableweb 6y ago
> Because there's no way to identify users besides reading the messages, they asked legitimate users to come forward so their data can be excluded from the investigation. Excluded from the investigation but still kept and also recorded in the first place because of dragnet surveillance. If I'm not comfortable with them seeing anything because I'm not guilty of anything what do I do then?

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