7 ms·

I guess the majority of people on HN already know this more or less. The problem is still this: We still don't have good alternatives to Google's products and s

I guess the majority of people on HN already know this more or less. The problem is still this: We still don't have good alternatives to Google's products and services. 1) Android: Google still owns all our phones. Even on rooted phones it hard to remove google services that god know send so many requests containing whatnot to the eeee addresses. Just install no-root firewall and you will be amazed the amount of pending requests that accumulate in 1 hour. 2) Google search: I guess I can manage with DDG but when it's not that straight forward search, subconciosuly I'm still thinking that let's just do a quick google search to see if i'm not missing anything. And often I find better results. While adblocks makes sure I filter most of the crap. 3) Gmail: Yes there are alternatives but switching emails is hard. It's a big commitment for most people to switch a 10 year old gmail address. And it still works great at filtering spam and whatnot. And same for maps, youtube and all their services.They really have a big leverage on everyone. Quiting facebook and instagram was child's play in comparison. I haven't logged in for almost an year now. Quitting google is really hard otoh.

martincmartin 6y ago
Google Maps has the wrong street names near me, so I looked for something from OpenStreetMap. But there's nothing that works with Android Auto. In fact, there are only two Android Auto navigation apps, Google Maps and Waze. Both owned by Google, and Waze seems happy to send me through the most confusing intersections if it thinks it will save 5 seconds of driving time.
- valiant55 6y ago
  I've submitted multiple corrections to Google Maps and all of them eventually were fixed. I even got a same day response one time, with the longest taking about 3 weeks. I haven't made any corrections recently. Have you attempted to submit feedback on the Maps site?
  - seaman1921 6y ago
    +1 ... rather than complaining about it, leverage the editing functionality provided in there to make the maps better for everyone.
  - bjornstar 6y ago
    As counter anecdata, I've reported a concrete coatings company claiming to be inside of a post office. I've reported it several times over the course of several months and nothing has happened. See for yourself: https://goo.gl/maps/LvAZXpSJgURoUqYk8 https://goo.gl/maps/LvAZXpSJgURoUqYk8 And with the blackhole that is Google support, what's the point in feeding the beast? We're all better off using Open Street Map and not rewarding Google for their poor behavior.
    - valiant55 6y ago
      Their website lists their address as a PO box which is probably causing problems. Some automated process added the business to Maps and the only solution might be for the business to take action and claim the listing on maps and update it.
- bozzcl 6y ago
  Android Auto was the biggest pain for me. I tried /e/OS, but for the life of me I couldn't get AA to work with MicroG.
- jakecopp 6y ago
  OsmAnd (open source) [1] is working on it! [2] Here's the Github Issue [3]. [1]: https://osmand.net/ https://osmand.net/ [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/OsmAnd/comments/l17r3l/any_updates_on_osmand_for_android_auto/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OsmAnd/comments/l17r3l/any_updates_... [3]: https://github.com/osmandapp/Osmand/issues/3391 https://github.com/osmandapp/Osmand/issues/3391
- habi 6y ago
  Have you tried https://www.magicearth.com https://www.magicearth.com? I’m using it on iOS where it supports Car Play. From a quick search it seems to me that it also supports Android Auto.
MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
YouTube alone has been a wonder of the world quite honestly.
leokennis 6y ago
There is one good argument for Google, and that is it’s free as in beer. For most people, any price over $0 is a dealbreaker. However, assuming you’re willing to pay for privacy, switching e-mail is super easy. For example, from the Fastmail UI, you literally log in to your Google account and all your mail is transferred to Fastmail. Switching to DDG? It’s 95% as good. Switching to Apple Maps or OSM? It’s 95% as good. Google Drive? There are 100 competitors. There is one site you cannot do without, and that is YouTube. Everything else from Google can easily be ditched, the only two things in your way could be a reluctance to pay money and a slight feeling of unease at having to get used to something else.
- e40 6y ago
  Switching to DDG? It’s 95% as good. I would say for personal stuff (ie, non-programming) it is. For programming, I continually have to switch back to google. DDG is way worse for me. Maybe it's just me, but the types of things I search for just don't work on DDG and I've wasted way too much of my time looking for answers using DDG, only to find them quickly with Google. It totally frustrates me, because I would much rather use DDG.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    Even for personal searches, I find myself using the g! operator in DDG about 50% of the time to find what I'm looking for. Critical operators like "site:" are not available in DDG.
    - lensi 6y ago
      "site:" is definitely available in ddg and has been for a long time
      - roryokane 6y ago
        Indeed. Proof: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+Google+finally+revealed+how+much+personal+data+they+collect+in+Chrome https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+Google...
ssss11 6y ago
Also Chrome/Chromium.
karinakarina 6y ago
For search: Use Startpage - gives you Google results with privacy. For email: Most people have multiple emails - work, school, personal, from the early 2000s. It's not out of this world to switch to an encrypted email service. Android: Never used it because I like iPhone. And, iPhone is a pretty great alternative to Android - definitely more private. But isn't there GrapheneOS and LineageOS?
- Isthatablackgsd 6y ago
  > For search: Use Startpage - gives you Google results with privacy. FYI, Ads company brought up Startpage. Despite their public statement with privacy for Startpage, I don't trust them since they can 180 it without any repercussion.
  - karinakarina 6y ago
    (Startpage employee) Privacy policy hasn't changed and that's legally binding. "Marketing messages can claim almost anything, but a privacy policy has legal status." - Robert E.G. Beens, Startpage CEO and Co-founder If you have questions, let me know.
    - Bancakes 6y ago
      Yes, are you aware billion dollar corporations get away with leaking terabytes of information, so a smalltime ad company will get away with leaking data over time? Are you aware someone has to manually pursue startpage? If I can't ssh into their servers and have a look-see or run my own instance, then their claims are unverifiable.
      - karinakarina 6y ago
        You're completely right, Big Tech gets away with a lot - including collecting/selling a ton of data to make profit. That's because their revenue model is based on behavioral advertising. For Startpage it's always been based on contextual advertising. And, you don't need personal data for that. And, it happens that System1 is interested in "capturing" that revenue from contextual advertising. "System1 is interested in Startpage's ad revenue, not its data," the company said. "The reason a company like System1 openly owns other search engines and consumer tech products like Info.com and Mapquest is that they want to capture that ad revenue that is slowly shifting to private search engines. There has been a steady increase in people using private search engines and therefore a steady increase in their revenue. It is a growing market that they feel will continue to thrive and grow." (https://www.computing.co.uk/news/4017337/privacy-focused-search-engine-startpage-details-system1-investment https://www.computing.co.uk/news/4017337/privacy-focused-sea...) That being said: At the end of the day, it all comes back to trust. Even with OSS, you have to trust that they won't change the code. And, you should use products that you trust to best protect your privacy.
CivBase 6y ago
I switched to DDG and ProtonMail with very little effort, even after using multiple GMail accounts for well over a decade. I occasionally retry searches on Google if the DDG results aren't good enough, but Google rarely finds anything DDG can't. Android has proven much more difficult to drop, although I'm hopeful that Librem and PinePhone are paving the way for an eventual alternative. I'm still using Android for now, but I at least try to source my apps from F-Droid instead of the Google Play Store. Maps and YouTube have been a little difficult. I'm trying to use OsmAnd on my phone, but I still find myself going to Google Maps somewhat frequently. I've replaced the YouTube app on my phone with NewPipe and I try to watch content on alternative platforms when possible, but there's a lot of stuff posted exclusively on YouTube.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  > I switched to DDG and ProtonMail with very little effort, even after using multiple GMail accounts for well over a decade. I occasionally retry searches on Google if the DDG results aren't good enough, but Google rarely finds anything DDG can't. Same. Paid Protonmail was quick and easy to get my domains working, and DDG works 90% of the time. I occasionally have to throw things to Bing or Google but DDG is pretty good. For any readers I strongly recommend buying a domain name and then trucking it to whatever email provider you want. Jonny-C-Doe.com let's you keep the same front end name while changing the back end if, say, you don't like protonmail.
tarsinge 6y ago
Switching email is the easiest, because service level is similar elsewhere. The migration just take a long time, but keeping the legacy gmail in parallel of the new account is not too bothersome. It's also a great occasion to use your own domain, so a future switch to another hosting is even easier.
upofadown 6y ago
Switching from Gmail is basically zero effort. You configure Gmail to forward all your email to the new account. Done. Email is generically really great in this regard. Very little lockin.
- paulcapewell 6y ago
  This is true but I think the point is about not having your email touch Google's servers - forwarding from your Gmail account means Google still gets to see your incoming email.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  Spam filtering is the reason I use Gmail and set it up for my family. I hate filtering spam, but it's outright dangerous to not have an effective spam/malware filter for my parents and children.
bozzcl 6y ago
Here's what I did for each point: Android: iPhone. I don't know if I trust Apple more than Google, but at least on the surface level our interests align better. Might try a Librem 5 or Google-less Android in the future. Google search: DDG. Agreed with your points there, sometimes it's tempting to go back to Google. Gmail: Hey.com commercial account, plus a custom domain and individual aliases for each service I give my email address to. That helps with portability somewhat, in the future at least. Maps: Apple Maps has been pretty nice. Might give OpenStreetMap a try. YouTube: Invidious. Android Auto: Apple Car Play. I wish there were a better option that didn't depend on Apple. Google Drive: OneDrive, but I'm looking for alternatives.
afiori 6y ago
What is a "eeee addresses"?

martincmartin 6y ago

Google Maps has the wrong street names near me, so I looked for something from OpenStreetMap. But there's nothing that works with Android Auto. In fact, there are only two Android Auto navigation apps, Google Maps and Waze. Both owned by Google, and Waze seems happy to send me through the most confusing intersections if it thinks it will save 5 seconds of driving time.

valiant55 6y ago
I've submitted multiple corrections to Google Maps and all of them eventually were fixed. I even got a same day response one time, with the longest taking about 3 weeks. I haven't made any corrections recently. Have you attempted to submit feedback on the Maps site?
- seaman1921 6y ago
  +1 ... rather than complaining about it, leverage the editing functionality provided in there to make the maps better for everyone.
- bjornstar 6y ago
  As counter anecdata, I've reported a concrete coatings company claiming to be inside of a post office. I've reported it several times over the course of several months and nothing has happened. See for yourself: https://goo.gl/maps/LvAZXpSJgURoUqYk8 https://goo.gl/maps/LvAZXpSJgURoUqYk8 And with the blackhole that is Google support, what's the point in feeding the beast? We're all better off using Open Street Map and not rewarding Google for their poor behavior.
  - valiant55 6y ago
    Their website lists their address as a PO box which is probably causing problems. Some automated process added the business to Maps and the only solution might be for the business to take action and claim the listing on maps and update it.
bozzcl 6y ago
Android Auto was the biggest pain for me. I tried /e/OS, but for the life of me I couldn't get AA to work with MicroG.
jakecopp 6y ago
OsmAnd (open source) [1] is working on it! [2] Here's the Github Issue [3]. [1]: https://osmand.net/ https://osmand.net/ [2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/OsmAnd/comments/l17r3l/any_updates_on_osmand_for_android_auto/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OsmAnd/comments/l17r3l/any_updates_... [3]: https://github.com/osmandapp/Osmand/issues/3391 https://github.com/osmandapp/Osmand/issues/3391
habi 6y ago
Have you tried https://www.magicearth.com https://www.magicearth.com? I’m using it on iOS where it supports Car Play. From a quick search it seems to me that it also supports Android Auto.

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago

YouTube alone has been a wonder of the world quite honestly.

leokennis 6y ago

There is one good argument for Google, and that is it’s free as in beer. For most people, any price over $0 is a dealbreaker. However, assuming you’re willing to pay for privacy, switching e-mail is super easy. For example, from the Fastmail UI, you literally log in to your Google account and all your mail is transferred to Fastmail. Switching to DDG? It’s 95% as good. Switching to Apple Maps or OSM? It’s 95% as good. Google Drive? There are 100 competitors. There is one site you cannot do without, and that is YouTube. Everything else from Google can easily be ditched, the only two things in your way could be a reluctance to pay money and a slight feeling of unease at having to get used to something else.

e40 6y ago
Switching to DDG? It’s 95% as good. I would say for personal stuff (ie, non-programming) it is. For programming, I continually have to switch back to google. DDG is way worse for me. Maybe it's just me, but the types of things I search for just don't work on DDG and I've wasted way too much of my time looking for answers using DDG, only to find them quickly with Google. It totally frustrates me, because I would much rather use DDG.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  Even for personal searches, I find myself using the g! operator in DDG about 50% of the time to find what I'm looking for. Critical operators like "site:" are not available in DDG.
  - lensi 6y ago
    "site:" is definitely available in ddg and has been for a long time
    - roryokane 6y ago
      Indeed. Proof: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+Google+finally+revealed+how+much+personal+data+they+collect+in+Chrome https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+Google...

ssss11 6y ago

Also Chrome/Chromium.

karinakarina 6y ago

For search: Use Startpage - gives you Google results with privacy. For email: Most people have multiple emails - work, school, personal, from the early 2000s. It's not out of this world to switch to an encrypted email service. Android: Never used it because I like iPhone. And, iPhone is a pretty great alternative to Android - definitely more private. But isn't there GrapheneOS and LineageOS?

Isthatablackgsd 6y ago
> For search: Use Startpage - gives you Google results with privacy. FYI, Ads company brought up Startpage. Despite their public statement with privacy for Startpage, I don't trust them since they can 180 it without any repercussion.
- karinakarina 6y ago
  (Startpage employee) Privacy policy hasn't changed and that's legally binding. "Marketing messages can claim almost anything, but a privacy policy has legal status." - Robert E.G. Beens, Startpage CEO and Co-founder If you have questions, let me know.
  - Bancakes 6y ago
    Yes, are you aware billion dollar corporations get away with leaking terabytes of information, so a smalltime ad company will get away with leaking data over time? Are you aware someone has to manually pursue startpage? If I can't ssh into their servers and have a look-see or run my own instance, then their claims are unverifiable.
    - karinakarina 6y ago
      You're completely right, Big Tech gets away with a lot - including collecting/selling a ton of data to make profit. That's because their revenue model is based on behavioral advertising. For Startpage it's always been based on contextual advertising. And, you don't need personal data for that. And, it happens that System1 is interested in "capturing" that revenue from contextual advertising. "System1 is interested in Startpage's ad revenue, not its data," the company said. "The reason a company like System1 openly owns other search engines and consumer tech products like Info.com and Mapquest is that they want to capture that ad revenue that is slowly shifting to private search engines. There has been a steady increase in people using private search engines and therefore a steady increase in their revenue. It is a growing market that they feel will continue to thrive and grow." (https://www.computing.co.uk/news/4017337/privacy-focused-search-engine-startpage-details-system1-investment https://www.computing.co.uk/news/4017337/privacy-focused-sea...) That being said: At the end of the day, it all comes back to trust. Even with OSS, you have to trust that they won't change the code. And, you should use products that you trust to best protect your privacy.

CivBase 6y ago

I switched to DDG and ProtonMail with very little effort, even after using multiple GMail accounts for well over a decade. I occasionally retry searches on Google if the DDG results aren't good enough, but Google rarely finds anything DDG can't. Android has proven much more difficult to drop, although I'm hopeful that Librem and PinePhone are paving the way for an eventual alternative. I'm still using Android for now, but I at least try to source my apps from F-Droid instead of the Google Play Store. Maps and YouTube have been a little difficult. I'm trying to use OsmAnd on my phone, but I still find myself going to Google Maps somewhat frequently. I've replaced the YouTube app on my phone with NewPipe and I try to watch content on alternative platforms when possible, but there's a lot of stuff posted exclusively on YouTube.

blaser-waffle 6y ago
> I switched to DDG and ProtonMail with very little effort, even after using multiple GMail accounts for well over a decade. I occasionally retry searches on Google if the DDG results aren't good enough, but Google rarely finds anything DDG can't. Same. Paid Protonmail was quick and easy to get my domains working, and DDG works 90% of the time. I occasionally have to throw things to Bing or Google but DDG is pretty good. For any readers I strongly recommend buying a domain name and then trucking it to whatever email provider you want. Jonny-C-Doe.com let's you keep the same front end name while changing the back end if, say, you don't like protonmail.

tarsinge 6y ago

Switching email is the easiest, because service level is similar elsewhere. The migration just take a long time, but keeping the legacy gmail in parallel of the new account is not too bothersome. It's also a great occasion to use your own domain, so a future switch to another hosting is even easier.

upofadown 6y ago

Switching from Gmail is basically zero effort. You configure Gmail to forward all your email to the new account. Done. Email is generically really great in this regard. Very little lockin.

paulcapewell 6y ago
This is true but I think the point is about not having your email touch Google's servers - forwarding from your Gmail account means Google still gets to see your incoming email.
koheripbal 6y ago
Spam filtering is the reason I use Gmail and set it up for my family. I hate filtering spam, but it's outright dangerous to not have an effective spam/malware filter for my parents and children.

bozzcl 6y ago

Here's what I did for each point: Android: iPhone. I don't know if I trust Apple more than Google, but at least on the surface level our interests align better. Might try a Librem 5 or Google-less Android in the future. Google search: DDG. Agreed with your points there, sometimes it's tempting to go back to Google. Gmail: Hey.com commercial account, plus a custom domain and individual aliases for each service I give my email address to. That helps with portability somewhat, in the future at least. Maps: Apple Maps has been pretty nice. Might give OpenStreetMap a try. YouTube: Invidious. Android Auto: Apple Car Play. I wish there were a better option that didn't depend on Apple. Google Drive: OneDrive, but I'm looking for alternatives.

afiori 6y ago

What is a "eeee addresses"?