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Do you think that you spending 0% of your time managing iOS devices has something to do with apps not being able to use their own payment system?

by Jyaif 6y ago

random5634 6y ago
This is one of the major features yes. On iOS apps are totally prohibited from their own payment flows in app / on platform - it's completely banned. This is extremely noticeable in a couple of areas. Subscription - you get an email from apple BEFORE renewal, and can easily cancel subscriptions - all located in one place - no phone calls or other stupidity (try cancelling a myheritage account by contrast!) They have integrated monitoring so if you delete an app, it will ask if you also want to cancel out the subscription for the app. The prompting for purchase and trials is VERY explicit. So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month- I mean, the scams and tricks are endless off app store. Especially with elderly relatives or younger folks or just folks who don't want to be hassled with this game playing, these features are what make using apple so nice and help drive the premium users are willing to pay (which can be ridiculous!). One tip - if you have elderly folks, scan their bank statement / cc statement 1x per year, you usually can save them thousands on auto-renewing stuff they no longer use.
- spideymans 6y ago
  >The prompting for purchase and trials is VERY explicit. So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month- I mean, the scams and tricks are endless off app store. I really wish government or credit card companies would impose rules on merchants that prohibit this kind of behaviour. It's very easy to get bitten by subscription scams, even from companies that appear legitimate. The lack of regulation on this matter just leaves Apple with justification to act as a payment gatekeeper.
  - random5634 6y ago
    Apple has focused pretty heavily on the user experience, developers be damned. I know this is not popular on HN (ie, anti-trust claims to allow devs to abuse users the way they can elsewhere). They haven't been stupid / annoying about it. You contrast their controls with those outside ios. The russian site I visit with the cookie notice, they can still track me and what am I going to do about it? So the cookie notice is both annoying an ineffective against bad actors. On iOS, I decline a permission, and it's done.
    - spideymans 6y ago
      >ie, anti-trust claims to allow devs to abuse users the way they can elsewhere I can't lie. When I see companies like Match Group complaining that iOS policies prevent them from surreptitiously locking their "customers" into subscriptions[0], I can't help but chuckle. This is precisely why I bought an iPhone. 0: https://nypost.com/2019/11/06/tinder-owners-stock-tumbles-after-missing-revenue-forecasts/ https://nypost.com/2019/11/06/tinder-owners-stock-tumbles-af...
      - random5634 6y ago
        Ya - if you look at list of complainers - folks running loot boxes, lock in uncancelable subscriptions etc, crazy privacy violators (Facebook). there is so much money in this though I don’t see how they don’t get political folks to force apples hand - joined by a surprising number of HN devs - the focus on what is best for user is long gone
    - Daho0n 6y ago
      It's exactly as ineffective in iOS. You are just comparing apples to rocketships (iPhone app Vs russian site in browser). Besides, top story on HN says Tiktok will track iOS users, circumventing apple's attempt to block it. So you decline and feel nice and fluffy but it didn't do much. It's worse on Android but there people with knowledge can at least fix it. In iOS you can't even install a proper adblocker. If you want the privacy you to be as effective as you say Apple will need to control every site in your browser like they do with apps.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
jsperson 6y ago
>Do you think that you spending 0% of your time managing iOS devices has something to do with apps not being able to use their own payment system? Indirectly sure - it pays for the app store and all of the curation that goes on there. Admittedly there's a crazy healthy profit for Apple, but I believe you are arguing principles so the amount shouldn't be relevant.

Do you think that you spending 0% of your time managing iOS devices has something to do with apps not being able to use their own payment system?

by Jyaif 6y ago

Do you think that you spending 0% of your time managing iOS devices has something to do with apps not being able to use their own payment system?

random5634 6y ago

This is one of the major features yes. On iOS apps are totally prohibited from their own payment flows in app / on platform - it's completely banned. This is extremely noticeable in a couple of areas. Subscription - you get an email from apple BEFORE renewal, and can easily cancel subscriptions - all located in one place - no phone calls or other stupidity (try cancelling a myheritage account by contrast!) They have integrated monitoring so if you delete an app, it will ask if you also want to cancel out the subscription for the app. The prompting for purchase and trials is VERY explicit. So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month- I mean, the scams and tricks are endless off app store. Especially with elderly relatives or younger folks or just folks who don't want to be hassled with this game playing, these features are what make using apple so nice and help drive the premium users are willing to pay (which can be ridiculous!). One tip - if you have elderly folks, scan their bank statement / cc statement 1x per year, you usually can save them thousands on auto-renewing stuff they no longer use.

spideymans 6y ago
>The prompting for purchase and trials is VERY explicit. So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month- I mean, the scams and tricks are endless off app store. I really wish government or credit card companies would impose rules on merchants that prohibit this kind of behaviour. It's very easy to get bitten by subscription scams, even from companies that appear legitimate. The lack of regulation on this matter just leaves Apple with justification to act as a payment gatekeeper.
- random5634 6y ago
  Apple has focused pretty heavily on the user experience, developers be damned. I know this is not popular on HN (ie, anti-trust claims to allow devs to abuse users the way they can elsewhere). They haven't been stupid / annoying about it. You contrast their controls with those outside ios. The russian site I visit with the cookie notice, they can still track me and what am I going to do about it? So the cookie notice is both annoying an ineffective against bad actors. On iOS, I decline a permission, and it's done.
  - spideymans 6y ago
    >ie, anti-trust claims to allow devs to abuse users the way they can elsewhere I can't lie. When I see companies like Match Group complaining that iOS policies prevent them from surreptitiously locking their "customers" into subscriptions[0], I can't help but chuckle. This is precisely why I bought an iPhone. 0: https://nypost.com/2019/11/06/tinder-owners-stock-tumbles-after-missing-revenue-forecasts/ https://nypost.com/2019/11/06/tinder-owners-stock-tumbles-af...
    - random5634 6y ago
      Ya - if you look at list of complainers - folks running loot boxes, lock in uncancelable subscriptions etc, crazy privacy violators (Facebook). there is so much money in this though I don’t see how they don’t get political folks to force apples hand - joined by a surprising number of HN devs - the focus on what is best for user is long gone
  - Daho0n 6y ago
    It's exactly as ineffective in iOS. You are just comparing apples to rocketships (iPhone app Vs russian site in browser). Besides, top story on HN says Tiktok will track iOS users, circumventing apple's attempt to block it. So you decline and feel nice and fluffy but it didn't do much. It's worse on Android but there people with knowledge can at least fix it. In iOS you can't even install a proper adblocker. If you want the privacy you to be as effective as you say Apple will need to control every site in your browser like they do with apps.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

jsperson 6y ago

>Do you think that you spending 0% of your time managing iOS devices has something to do with apps not being able to use their own payment system? Indirectly sure - it pays for the app store and all of the curation that goes on there. Admittedly there's a crazy healthy profit for Apple, but I believe you are arguing principles so the amount shouldn't be relevant.