5 ms·

The Mac markup is not 100%.

by jolux 6y ago

simias 6y ago
It depends on the products, for some of them I'm fairly sure it's well beyond that (their new headphones come to mind). For their macbooks you're almost certainly right though.
Jtsummers 6y ago
Yeah. I've said it before, if you do a like-for-like comparison (of notebooks, I've found this to be less true on their desktops) then their prices are often in line with other manufacturers. Every time I've bought a MBP (2007, 2009, 2012, 2017) I've done a comparison with non-Apple laptops and found that a spec-for-spec equivalent from most manufacturers is going to be roughly equivalent in price to Apple's (usually a range of about $300-400 on the prices, Apple being near the top but not always the top). Now, if you spec out their Mac Pro, especially as it gets updated so infrequently, those get very out of line with competitor hardware quickly.
coder543 6y ago
For SSD upgrade prices, it is actually more than a 100% markup compared to retail prices for the most premium Samsung PCIe SSDs on the market. Apple's markup is multiple hundreds of percent compared to mid-range PCIe SSDs on the market. Retail prices already include higher profit margins than bulk order prices would include, which makes this markup even more egregious. I calculated it the other day, and Apple is charging $0.52/GB for SSDs on their M1 MacBook Air. Samsung's 980 Pro is under $0.20/GB for the 1TB model on Amazon right now. That is arguably one of the best SSDs on the market right now, and I'm fairly sure Samsung' 980 Pro is actually significantly better than the internal SSD that Apple is using on the M1 MacBook Air. That means Apple is charging a 160% markup above retail price, minimum. The Western Digital SN550 1TB PCIe SSD is priced at about $0.10/GB at retail on Amazon, which means Apple is charging over a 400% markup relative to the retail prices of that perfectly good SSD. Most users would not be able to tell the difference between the SN550 and the internal SSDs Apple is currently using. I recognize that other OEMs can sometimes charge steep upgrade markups too... but Apple's prices for storage are personally annoying to me because the M1 MacBook Air seems reasonably priced until you get into the upgrades. I wanted to get more storage, but I'm not going to pay $0.52/GB for additional storage these days... I just don't find it reasonable.
- jolux 6y ago
  I’m talking about computers here though, not parts. Spec for spec, is an Apple computer really 2x more expensive?
  - coder543 6y ago
    Certainly. Computers are made of parts. Apple charges egregious prices for upgrades, some companies don’t. System76 is the focus of this whole discussion, and they charge extremely reasonable prices for SSD upgrades... not hundreds of percent markups. Since we’re on the topic of System76, a fully upgraded Oryx Pro (except leaving the GPU at the base option) costs about half of what a fully upgraded 16” MBP costs (also leaving the GPU at the base option), while offering similar specs — $3158 vs $6000. The System76 chooses to go for a 144Hz panel instead of a HiDPI panel, but different people value different things. The System76 obviously has a better port selection (for most people), while obviously not being as sleek — but it’s not huge either, it’s reasonably thin and light. It’s more durable while not as shiny. It’s easy for people to pull out the “no true Scotsman” defense at this point, but it all depends on what the customer is looking for. It’s Apple’s fault if they don’t offer enough variety to meet the needs of their customers. I’m sure I could dig into comparative analysis of other OEMs vs Apple and come up with other examples, but this one is easy enough. Spec for spec, Apple charges much more than twice as much for many important upgrades... so a sufficiently upgraded Apple laptop can be more than twice as much, even if it’s often “only” a 70% markup or something. That doesn’t excuse charging egregious prices for storage. Customers want storage, and Apple withholds it unless customers want to pay a large ransom. They solder the SSDs so that customers cannot upgrade their own computers. I own an M1 MacBook Air. I’m not some “Apple hater”, but their upgrade pricing is truly appalling, and for all their talk of environmental friendliness, their attempts to thwart aftermarket repair and upgrades significantly hinders the total potential lifetime of their products, which increases their environmental impact relative to what could be. I bought the 256GB/16GB model, and that 256GB SSD is borderline too small for me to deal with, and I’m not even like an average user that would be attempting to store music and pictures on it. I’m almost exclusively using it for software dev and web browsing. I would swap out the SSD, but... that’s obviously not possible. If I can’t make the 256GB of storage work long term, I think I would rather sell this thing and buy something else than give Apple $0.52/GB. The M1 is good... but it’s not priceless. My opinions are subject to change, of course.
goldcd 6y ago
Indeed. Just looking at the M1 Air (which I am quite tempted by). $999 Starting Price. tempting +$249 +265Gb SSD (and a 8th GPU core) +$200 +8Gb RAM (to a reasonable 16Gb) +$200 +512Gb (to a nice 1Tb) So that's $649 for a 768Gigs of SSD, 8 Gigs of RAM (and a GPU core). Cost of 1Tb gen-4 and a stick of RAM is about $200
- postalrat 6y ago
  The fact that paying those inflated prices after the initial purchase isn't an option is already enough to turn me away from buying any of them (or even the laptop itself).
  - goldcd 6y ago
    I think it's more (and it's not just Apple playing this game) that the entry model/price is horrifically under-powered. It's there to hook you in on the price, and that's it. The rest of the pricing is then designed to pull you along the upgrade ratchet. i.e. You've paid the absolutely necessary $249 to get the 512Gb... then it's only $200 to get an extra 512Gb. Once you've overcome that first hurdle, the 2nd looks almost good value.

The Mac markup is not 100%.

by jolux 6y ago

The Mac markup is not 100%.

It depends on the products, for some of them I'm fairly sure it's well beyond that (their new headphones come to mind). For their macbooks you're almost certainly right though.

Jtsummers 6y ago

Yeah. I've said it before, if you do a like-for-like comparison (of notebooks, I've found this to be less true on their desktops) then their prices are often in line with other manufacturers. Every time I've bought a MBP (2007, 2009, 2012, 2017) I've done a comparison with non-Apple laptops and found that a spec-for-spec equivalent from most manufacturers is going to be roughly equivalent in price to Apple's (usually a range of about $300-400 on the prices, Apple being near the top but not always the top). Now, if you spec out their Mac Pro, especially as it gets updated so infrequently, those get very out of line with competitor hardware quickly.

coder543 6y ago

For SSD upgrade prices, it is actually more than a 100% markup compared to retail prices for the most premium Samsung PCIe SSDs on the market. Apple's markup is multiple hundreds of percent compared to mid-range PCIe SSDs on the market. Retail prices already include higher profit margins than bulk order prices would include, which makes this markup even more egregious. I calculated it the other day, and Apple is charging $0.52/GB for SSDs on their M1 MacBook Air. Samsung's 980 Pro is under $0.20/GB for the 1TB model on Amazon right now. That is arguably one of the best SSDs on the market right now, and I'm fairly sure Samsung' 980 Pro is actually significantly better than the internal SSD that Apple is using on the M1 MacBook Air. That means Apple is charging a 160% markup above retail price, minimum. The Western Digital SN550 1TB PCIe SSD is priced at about $0.10/GB at retail on Amazon, which means Apple is charging over a 400% markup relative to the retail prices of that perfectly good SSD. Most users would not be able to tell the difference between the SN550 and the internal SSDs Apple is currently using. I recognize that other OEMs can sometimes charge steep upgrade markups too... but Apple's prices for storage are personally annoying to me because the M1 MacBook Air seems reasonably priced until you get into the upgrades. I wanted to get more storage, but I'm not going to pay $0.52/GB for additional storage these days... I just don't find it reasonable.

jolux 6y ago
I’m talking about computers here though, not parts. Spec for spec, is an Apple computer really 2x more expensive?
- coder543 6y ago
  Certainly. Computers are made of parts. Apple charges egregious prices for upgrades, some companies don’t. System76 is the focus of this whole discussion, and they charge extremely reasonable prices for SSD upgrades... not hundreds of percent markups. Since we’re on the topic of System76, a fully upgraded Oryx Pro (except leaving the GPU at the base option) costs about half of what a fully upgraded 16” MBP costs (also leaving the GPU at the base option), while offering similar specs — $3158 vs $6000. The System76 chooses to go for a 144Hz panel instead of a HiDPI panel, but different people value different things. The System76 obviously has a better port selection (for most people), while obviously not being as sleek — but it’s not huge either, it’s reasonably thin and light. It’s more durable while not as shiny. It’s easy for people to pull out the “no true Scotsman” defense at this point, but it all depends on what the customer is looking for. It’s Apple’s fault if they don’t offer enough variety to meet the needs of their customers. I’m sure I could dig into comparative analysis of other OEMs vs Apple and come up with other examples, but this one is easy enough. Spec for spec, Apple charges much more than twice as much for many important upgrades... so a sufficiently upgraded Apple laptop can be more than twice as much, even if it’s often “only” a 70% markup or something. That doesn’t excuse charging egregious prices for storage. Customers want storage, and Apple withholds it unless customers want to pay a large ransom. They solder the SSDs so that customers cannot upgrade their own computers. I own an M1 MacBook Air. I’m not some “Apple hater”, but their upgrade pricing is truly appalling, and for all their talk of environmental friendliness, their attempts to thwart aftermarket repair and upgrades significantly hinders the total potential lifetime of their products, which increases their environmental impact relative to what could be. I bought the 256GB/16GB model, and that 256GB SSD is borderline too small for me to deal with, and I’m not even like an average user that would be attempting to store music and pictures on it. I’m almost exclusively using it for software dev and web browsing. I would swap out the SSD, but... that’s obviously not possible. If I can’t make the 256GB of storage work long term, I think I would rather sell this thing and buy something else than give Apple $0.52/GB. The M1 is good... but it’s not priceless. My opinions are subject to change, of course.

goldcd 6y ago

Indeed. Just looking at the M1 Air (which I am quite tempted by). $999 Starting Price. tempting +$249 +265Gb SSD (and a 8th GPU core) +$200 +8Gb RAM (to a reasonable 16Gb) +$200 +512Gb (to a nice 1Tb) So that's $649 for a 768Gigs of SSD, 8 Gigs of RAM (and a GPU core). Cost of 1Tb gen-4 and a stick of RAM is about $200

postalrat 6y ago
The fact that paying those inflated prices after the initial purchase isn't an option is already enough to turn me away from buying any of them (or even the laptop itself).
- goldcd 6y ago
  I think it's more (and it's not just Apple playing this game) that the entry model/price is horrifically under-powered. It's there to hook you in on the price, and that's it. The rest of the pricing is then designed to pull you along the upgrade ratchet. i.e. You've paid the absolutely necessary $249 to get the 512Gb... then it's only $200 to get an extra 512Gb. Once you've overcome that first hurdle, the 2nd looks almost good value.