3 ms·

"Henk and Ingrid pay for Mohammed and Fatima.” I really hope that at some point, the world starts talking about how Mohammed and Fatima ended up there. This is

by 34679 6y ago

"Henk and Ingrid pay for Mohammed and Fatima.” I really hope that at some point, the world starts talking about how Mohammed and Fatima ended up there. This is a part of what happens when you spend two decades bombing villages.

tgv 6y ago
Mohammed and Fatima represent Morrocans. Muslims, second generation immigrants, but not from the Middle East. Wilders runs an anti-immigration party.
- Rule35 6y ago
  Most of Europe does now. Governments aren't keeping the locals or other foreigners safe because of blatantly racist policies. But it's wrong to simply say 'anti-immigration', it's for a more screened immigration process for places from where people are seen to have trouble fitting in. Almost everybody (95%+) is totally accepting of people who (intend to, even) speak the language and accept the laws, regardless of what they look like. Moreover, the sentiment is shared by most demographics. They respect their homes and don't want abusers here simply because of some skin-color in common. They love their children and don't want them stolen and prostituted. The UK has actual rape syndicates now. Thousands of people running human trafficking rings. Left almost unmolested (hah!) and undocumented because of the origin of the predators. This is fact. The people on the ground just want their kids to be safe but by reporting the crimes they're accused of being racist. It's really a religion problem, and only the sort that comes from a few of the worst countries, but racist is a better slander word and costs the accuser nothing (ie, burden of proof) in today's climate. Worse, the government that fails to say 'Muslim Pakistani males' is willing to say 'South Asian rape gangs' which slanders a lot more innocent people while totally denying the problem. This lie makes Qatari men (also Muslim) look bad despite generally being as civilized as anyone, as well as non-Muslim Indians and Balinese, etc. Literally 1/3rd of the world, to avoid naming and fixing the problem. And then there's the "criticism of islam" thing. Nobody is willing to accept more of that since the recent attacks in fall 2020. Americans just try to see everything through a racist lens.
  - anoncake 6y ago
    So you think bigotry based on someone's religion shouldn't be considered racism. You may be technically right, but that's a bit of a strange hill to die on. And yes, it is bigotry. Islam may be awful, but so is Christianity. Fortunately, people tend to cherry-pick from their faith and interpret it in a way that is actually compatible with a free modern society.
    - Rule35 6y ago
      Right, race and religion are not the same. And no, it's the hill from which to not die. How are you doing over there on rocky Mt Everyone-is-Identical? My discrimination is your bigotry when you're trying to make me the bad guy. But yes, I do reserve the right to judge things for myself. You obviously do to, and have lashed into my views simply because they differ, not because you've shown them to be incorrect. In an area where a vast majority of a class of criminals share a combination of home country and religion it makes perfect sense to want to screen them more thoroughly, because the only other option is every citizen having to be race-conscious when hiring men with access to children. To make this specific situation worse, the governments refusal to acknowledge it means that the criminals aren't getting an appropriate conspiracy charge because that would have to acknowledge the gang nature which would then demonstrate the race (if not religion) and as such, they face minor charges (ex 3y for kidnapping and gang rape) that don't actually stop the problem and then release them back into their communities where they poison others. A gang charge would also prevent them associating with their past conspirators. > Islam may be awful, but so is Christianity. One, your moral relativism is disgusting. There are obvious differences between all religions and trying to one-size-fits-all totally craps on people whose faiths aren't violent or abhorrent, or whose churches have practiced differently for long enough to be recognized. Two, I'm not making the claim that either is bad or good, but that islam and pakistan together are a huge red flag. Whether that means Pakistani islam is different is irrelevant in the context of protecting children. > Fortunately, people tend to cherry-pick from their faith and interpret it in a way that is actually compatible with a free modern society. Yes, fortunately. But what do we do about those who don't? Close our eyes and pretend they do?
danaris 6y ago
I mean, the plight of refugees is certainly a good reason not to mistreat and discriminate against immigrants, but it doesn't matter how they ended up there, you still shouldn't be discriminating against them because of their nationality, their religion, their names. No one deserves to be the target of racism, no matter how bad or good their circumstances are. If someone has done something worthy of derision, then justly revile them for that, but leave their race, ethnicity, religion, sex, gender, orientation, disability, etc out of it.
oh_sigh 6y ago
70% of non-native Muslims in the Netherlands are from Morocco and Turkey. When was the last two decade bombing campaign against those countries?
- 34679 6y ago
  Their numbers will be higher because they've been immigrating since the 60's.[1] In the last decade, Morocco isn't even in the top 10.[2] Most of the asylum seekers are coming from Syria.[3] [1]https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/largest-sources-immigrants-netherlands https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/largest-... [2]https://www.statista.com/statistics/525804/netherlands-largest-groups-of-immigrants-by-nationality/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/525804/netherlands-large... [3]https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2019/43/more-syrian-asylum-seekers-and-following-relatives https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2019/43/more-syrian-asylum-see...
avs733 6y ago
two decades? Two centuries.

by 34679 6y ago

tgv 6y ago

Mohammed and Fatima represent Morrocans. Muslims, second generation immigrants, but not from the Middle East. Wilders runs an anti-immigration party.

Rule35 6y ago
Most of Europe does now. Governments aren't keeping the locals or other foreigners safe because of blatantly racist policies. But it's wrong to simply say 'anti-immigration', it's for a more screened immigration process for places from where people are seen to have trouble fitting in. Almost everybody (95%+) is totally accepting of people who (intend to, even) speak the language and accept the laws, regardless of what they look like. Moreover, the sentiment is shared by most demographics. They respect their homes and don't want abusers here simply because of some skin-color in common. They love their children and don't want them stolen and prostituted. The UK has actual rape syndicates now. Thousands of people running human trafficking rings. Left almost unmolested (hah!) and undocumented because of the origin of the predators. This is fact. The people on the ground just want their kids to be safe but by reporting the crimes they're accused of being racist. It's really a religion problem, and only the sort that comes from a few of the worst countries, but racist is a better slander word and costs the accuser nothing (ie, burden of proof) in today's climate. Worse, the government that fails to say 'Muslim Pakistani males' is willing to say 'South Asian rape gangs' which slanders a lot more innocent people while totally denying the problem. This lie makes Qatari men (also Muslim) look bad despite generally being as civilized as anyone, as well as non-Muslim Indians and Balinese, etc. Literally 1/3rd of the world, to avoid naming and fixing the problem. And then there's the "criticism of islam" thing. Nobody is willing to accept more of that since the recent attacks in fall 2020. Americans just try to see everything through a racist lens.
- anoncake 6y ago
  So you think bigotry based on someone's religion shouldn't be considered racism. You may be technically right, but that's a bit of a strange hill to die on. And yes, it is bigotry. Islam may be awful, but so is Christianity. Fortunately, people tend to cherry-pick from their faith and interpret it in a way that is actually compatible with a free modern society.
  - Rule35 6y ago
    Right, race and religion are not the same. And no, it's the hill from which to not die. How are you doing over there on rocky Mt Everyone-is-Identical? My discrimination is your bigotry when you're trying to make me the bad guy. But yes, I do reserve the right to judge things for myself. You obviously do to, and have lashed into my views simply because they differ, not because you've shown them to be incorrect. In an area where a vast majority of a class of criminals share a combination of home country and religion it makes perfect sense to want to screen them more thoroughly, because the only other option is every citizen having to be race-conscious when hiring men with access to children. To make this specific situation worse, the governments refusal to acknowledge it means that the criminals aren't getting an appropriate conspiracy charge because that would have to acknowledge the gang nature which would then demonstrate the race (if not religion) and as such, they face minor charges (ex 3y for kidnapping and gang rape) that don't actually stop the problem and then release them back into their communities where they poison others. A gang charge would also prevent them associating with their past conspirators. > Islam may be awful, but so is Christianity. One, your moral relativism is disgusting. There are obvious differences between all religions and trying to one-size-fits-all totally craps on people whose faiths aren't violent or abhorrent, or whose churches have practiced differently for long enough to be recognized. Two, I'm not making the claim that either is bad or good, but that islam and pakistan together are a huge red flag. Whether that means Pakistani islam is different is irrelevant in the context of protecting children. > Fortunately, people tend to cherry-pick from their faith and interpret it in a way that is actually compatible with a free modern society. Yes, fortunately. But what do we do about those who don't? Close our eyes and pretend they do?

danaris 6y ago

I mean, the plight of refugees is certainly a good reason not to mistreat and discriminate against immigrants, but it doesn't matter how they ended up there, you still shouldn't be discriminating against them because of their nationality, their religion, their names. No one deserves to be the target of racism, no matter how bad or good their circumstances are. If someone has done something worthy of derision, then justly revile them for that, but leave their race, ethnicity, religion, sex, gender, orientation, disability, etc out of it.

oh_sigh 6y ago

70% of non-native Muslims in the Netherlands are from Morocco and Turkey. When was the last two decade bombing campaign against those countries?

34679 6y ago
Their numbers will be higher because they've been immigrating since the 60's.[1] In the last decade, Morocco isn't even in the top 10.[2] Most of the asylum seekers are coming from Syria.[3] [1]https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/largest-sources-immigrants-netherlands https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/largest-... [2]https://www.statista.com/statistics/525804/netherlands-largest-groups-of-immigrants-by-nationality/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/525804/netherlands-large... [3]https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2019/43/more-syrian-asylum-seekers-and-following-relatives https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2019/43/more-syrian-asylum-see...

avs733 6y ago

two decades? Two centuries.