4 ms·

Turning personal trust in others into what looks like a stock market game strikes me as quite odd. Because it feels like turning the individual into a commodit

by dvtrn 6y ago

Turning personal trust in others into what looks like a stock market game strikes me as quite odd. Because it feels like turning the individual into a commodity?

EGreg 6y ago
So what? That's what capitalism does. It cheapens and commodifies everything. Often, that's what you want, but when it comes to personal relationships, or welfare of people and animals, maybe it's not. Both parents working 10 hour days and neglecting their kids and quality time just so they can climb the corporate ladder is a more serious example. The other day I wrote about Facebook doing it to the words "friend" and "like": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26456328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26456328 I remember an acquaintance of mine, Siqi Chen, built Friends for Sale back in the day on Facebook and that was a great launch pad for his career, where he did a lot more interesting stuff later :)
MattGaiser 6y ago
But that is what you are in the workplace. And you admit this every time you switch jobs or ask for a raise.
- tolbish 6y ago
  Is it that common to switch jobs purely for the money? For the gigantic pay raises yes, but I think for the vast majority, you switch jobs for a variety of non-commodifying factors along with money.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  No. I reject the premise that exchanging labor for compensation is the same as self-commidification parallel to having a simulacrum of "stocks" that are bought and sold based upon whims and sentiment like some kind of fungible, tradeable asset. 100% rejecting that. The former is a mutually beneficial exchange, not an ephemeral manifestation of trading chattel that masquerades as some indicator of competence or value in the job market as is the latter-IMO. I am not a commodity, I sell my skills and talents as services by virtue of career-based contributions to my employer. Are those commodities? Arguably, probably so. Those are the table stakes.
  - tacitusarc 6y ago
    Absolutely agree. Treating people like stocks completely ignores individual agency and decision making. A stock cannot choose to be traded, but I sure as hell can choose to quit.
- zendude213 6y ago
  What an insipid and silly assertion. Just because I can switch jobs or ask for a raise doesn’t mean I’m nothing but a commodity in the labor market. Classic category error. But makes sense why you seem obsessed with a product that wants to reduce you to a number

by dvtrn 6y ago

Turning personal trust in others into what looks like a stock market game strikes me as quite odd. Because it feels like turning the individual into a commodity?

EGreg 6y ago

So what? That's what capitalism does. It cheapens and commodifies everything. Often, that's what you want, but when it comes to personal relationships, or welfare of people and animals, maybe it's not. Both parents working 10 hour days and neglecting their kids and quality time just so they can climb the corporate ladder is a more serious example. The other day I wrote about Facebook doing it to the words "friend" and "like": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26456328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26456328 I remember an acquaintance of mine, Siqi Chen, built Friends for Sale back in the day on Facebook and that was a great launch pad for his career, where he did a lot more interesting stuff later :)

MattGaiser 6y ago

But that is what you are in the workplace. And you admit this every time you switch jobs or ask for a raise.

tolbish 6y ago
Is it that common to switch jobs purely for the money? For the gigantic pay raises yes, but I think for the vast majority, you switch jobs for a variety of non-commodifying factors along with money.
dvtrn 6y ago
No. I reject the premise that exchanging labor for compensation is the same as self-commidification parallel to having a simulacrum of "stocks" that are bought and sold based upon whims and sentiment like some kind of fungible, tradeable asset. 100% rejecting that. The former is a mutually beneficial exchange, not an ephemeral manifestation of trading chattel that masquerades as some indicator of competence or value in the job market as is the latter-IMO. I am not a commodity, I sell my skills and talents as services by virtue of career-based contributions to my employer. Are those commodities? Arguably, probably so. Those are the table stakes.
- tacitusarc 6y ago
  Absolutely agree. Treating people like stocks completely ignores individual agency and decision making. A stock cannot choose to be traded, but I sure as hell can choose to quit.
zendude213 6y ago
What an insipid and silly assertion. Just because I can switch jobs or ask for a raise doesn’t mean I’m nothing but a commodity in the labor market. Classic category error. But makes sense why you seem obsessed with a product that wants to reduce you to a number