3 ms·

Imo it's a rather cruel irony that the green parties (in Europe at least) were in big part getting their growth from and membership dedication from the Harrisbu

Imo it's a rather cruel irony that the green parties (in Europe at least) were in big part getting their growth from and membership dedication from the Harrisburg and Chernobyl accidents. So when we really need a "green" party they're filled with zealots who're unable see the harm reduction tradeoffs that needs to be done.

anigbrowl 6y ago
You know, the Obama administration approved construction and loan guarantees for two nuclear plants in GA, which were the first expansion of the US nuclear fleet in many years, and I believe the plants come online this year. But I have never heard any nuclear advocate give them any credit for this. It required a fair bit of political capital, given then (then) recent meltdown at Fukushima. Maybe a little less complaining about 'green zealots' and a little more humility about nuclear's negative externalities would improve cooperation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_Electric_Generating_Plant#Units_3_and_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_Electric_Generating_Pla...
- whizzter 6y ago
  Where did Obama (or Dems) come into this? I'm talking about parties like the US, German and Swedish "Green" parties (and probably others within Europe but I'm not too well versed into the details of those). The US 2 party system makes the US one mostly irrelevant. But in countries like Germany and Sweden where more parties are in parliament, they have over time had the chance to apply influence over time to the extent where nuclear power is really on it's last straws despite the only reasonable replacement during winters is fossil fuels. https://www.gp.org/green_new_deal https://www.gp.org/green_new_deal (US) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_90/The_Greens#Energy_and_nuclear_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_90/The_Greens#Energy_... (Germany) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_(Sweden) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_(Sweden)
  - anigbrowl 6y ago
    You wrote '(in Europe at least)' suggesting that you were also contemplating green movements outside Europe, and mentioned Harrisburg, a US radiation accident. Also, the language of 'green zealotry' is a popular political trope in the US. Since you cast a broad net, I assumed the US could be included in discussion. I disagree that it is irrelevant because the 'green new deal' proposed by some Democrats is a subject of hot debate but originates within the 2 party system.
    - whizzter 6y ago
      That qualifier was applied to "green parties" (and global can be outside of Europe AND the US), can't say exactly everything the Dems has said but i doubt they'd called themselves the green party as far as I know while there was another registered by that name. I was clearly referring to the likes of the actual US Green party I linked previously for whose the US presidential election candidate was Howie Hawkins that has an explicit policy document stating that Nuclear power should be abolished (no idea what the democratic "green new deal" includes but it's hopefully less nutters). Harrisburg was quite important global factor in most of these parties history worldwide in the sense that the accident was the spark that bought early technohostile environmentalists into action to create these parties in the years following the accident. You can find a list of the parties since they seem to have global cooperation organisation (the map on the page also shows where they are in parliament) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Greens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Greens
- Robotbeat 6y ago
  Hey, I give them credit for that. Centrist Dems like Obama and Biden seem fine with some role for nuclear power on the electric grid.

anigbrowl 6y ago

You know, the Obama administration approved construction and loan guarantees for two nuclear plants in GA, which were the first expansion of the US nuclear fleet in many years, and I believe the plants come online this year. But I have never heard any nuclear advocate give them any credit for this. It required a fair bit of political capital, given then (then) recent meltdown at Fukushima. Maybe a little less complaining about 'green zealots' and a little more humility about nuclear's negative externalities would improve cooperation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_Electric_Generating_Plant#Units_3_and_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogtle_Electric_Generating_Pla...

whizzter 6y ago
Where did Obama (or Dems) come into this? I'm talking about parties like the US, German and Swedish "Green" parties (and probably others within Europe but I'm not too well versed into the details of those). The US 2 party system makes the US one mostly irrelevant. But in countries like Germany and Sweden where more parties are in parliament, they have over time had the chance to apply influence over time to the extent where nuclear power is really on it's last straws despite the only reasonable replacement during winters is fossil fuels. https://www.gp.org/green_new_deal https://www.gp.org/green_new_deal (US) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_90/The_Greens#Energy_and_nuclear_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_90/The_Greens#Energy_... (Germany) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_(Sweden) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_(Sweden)
- anigbrowl 6y ago
  You wrote '(in Europe at least)' suggesting that you were also contemplating green movements outside Europe, and mentioned Harrisburg, a US radiation accident. Also, the language of 'green zealotry' is a popular political trope in the US. Since you cast a broad net, I assumed the US could be included in discussion. I disagree that it is irrelevant because the 'green new deal' proposed by some Democrats is a subject of hot debate but originates within the 2 party system.
  - whizzter 6y ago
    That qualifier was applied to "green parties" (and global can be outside of Europe AND the US), can't say exactly everything the Dems has said but i doubt they'd called themselves the green party as far as I know while there was another registered by that name. I was clearly referring to the likes of the actual US Green party I linked previously for whose the US presidential election candidate was Howie Hawkins that has an explicit policy document stating that Nuclear power should be abolished (no idea what the democratic "green new deal" includes but it's hopefully less nutters). Harrisburg was quite important global factor in most of these parties history worldwide in the sense that the accident was the spark that bought early technohostile environmentalists into action to create these parties in the years following the accident. You can find a list of the parties since they seem to have global cooperation organisation (the map on the page also shows where they are in parliament) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Greens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Greens
Robotbeat 6y ago
Hey, I give them credit for that. Centrist Dems like Obama and Biden seem fine with some role for nuclear power on the electric grid.