3 ms·

You’re comparing daylight to not spreading a disease? Really? It’s disingenuous to compare disease research for which there is volumes of direct evidence to da

by dahart 6y ago

You’re comparing daylight to not spreading a disease? Really? It’s disingenuous to compare disease research for which there is volumes of direct evidence to daylight research for which is very little research, and the research is indirect - which the SRBR plainly admits, when you read beyond the abstract. This is one way they’re misleading you, by leaving the uncertainty out of the abstracts and conclusions. You’re doing yourself a disservice if care about this at all and you’re really not reading past the abstract. And I know you care about this a little. How do you arrive at the claim “most” societies agree with SRBR? I’ve seen two of them, SRBR and AASM. Do you have a survey of all the societies that have studied DST? Most scientists agree that the appeal to authority argument is a fallacy.

throw0101a 6y ago
If you wish to spend your time scouring journals for opposing views go right ahead. Here's a (non-exhaustive) list of groups that probably study this issue: * https://srbr.org/about-us/other-societies/ https://srbr.org/about-us/other-societies/ It's probably a good place to start.
- dahart 6y ago
  Thank you for the list, I will do a little poking around just for our conversation 8 months from now. ;) The very first publication I found in 2 minutes following links randomly, from the starting place you provided says: “Repeatedly, [Social Jet Lag] has been found to be a risk factor for higher body mass index (BMI) or even obesity, depressive symptoms, and for behaviour that is hazardous to health, such as smoking and poor dietary habits (for a review see [15]). The effects found by Borisenkov et al. (2017) [14] correspond to a statistically small to medium effect size (r = 0.2). Roenneberg, Winnebeck, et al. [8] however recently claimed that this effect was “biologically large”. While that may be true, such a claim is unjustified so long as we lack information about the practical meaningfulness of differences in SJL on an interval scale” [1] (emphasis mine) This is exactly what I’ve been saying. The health claims of DST are being exaggerated. I don’t have any problem with their conclusion that perennial Standard Time seems to have “higher” support than perennial Daylight Savings, based on the available and indirect evidence, but SRBR and others calling it conclusive and “strong” is not something that either the science nor most scientists agree with. Your claim that there’s strong consensus isn’t true. [1] https://www.mdpi.com/2624-5175/2/1/3/htm https://www.mdpi.com/2624-5175/2/1/3/htm
  - throw0101a 6y ago
    > Your claim that there’s strong consensus isn’t true. Are there any chronobiology or sleep societies that are advocating either (a) leaving the twice-yearly time jump as it is or (b) switching to year-round DST? > Scientists around the world support this initiative to adopt Standard Time, and statements have been issued by the U.S.-based Society for Research on Biological Rhythms, the European Biological Rhythms Society, and the European Sleep Research Society. As Canadian biological rhythm researchers supporting evidence-based policy, we strongly recommend a switch to permanent Standard Time. * https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-turn-back-the-clock-on-daylight-savings-why-standard-time-all-year/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-turn-back-th... * https://archive.is/f441n https://archive.is/f441n (in case of paywall) The main regions that do DST are US, Canada, and EU (30-50˚ latitude): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_by_countr... And all of the societies that cover these areas say (AFAICT) go to year-round Standard Time.

by dahart 6y ago

throw0101a 6y ago

If you wish to spend your time scouring journals for opposing views go right ahead. Here's a (non-exhaustive) list of groups that probably study this issue: * https://srbr.org/about-us/other-societies/ https://srbr.org/about-us/other-societies/ It's probably a good place to start.

dahart 6y ago
Thank you for the list, I will do a little poking around just for our conversation 8 months from now. ;) The very first publication I found in 2 minutes following links randomly, from the starting place you provided says: “Repeatedly, [Social Jet Lag] has been found to be a risk factor for higher body mass index (BMI) or even obesity, depressive symptoms, and for behaviour that is hazardous to health, such as smoking and poor dietary habits (for a review see [15]). The effects found by Borisenkov et al. (2017) [14] correspond to a statistically small to medium effect size (r = 0.2). Roenneberg, Winnebeck, et al. [8] however recently claimed that this effect was “biologically large”. While that may be true, such a claim is unjustified so long as we lack information about the practical meaningfulness of differences in SJL on an interval scale” [1] (emphasis mine) This is exactly what I’ve been saying. The health claims of DST are being exaggerated. I don’t have any problem with their conclusion that perennial Standard Time seems to have “higher” support than perennial Daylight Savings, based on the available and indirect evidence, but SRBR and others calling it conclusive and “strong” is not something that either the science nor most scientists agree with. Your claim that there’s strong consensus isn’t true. [1] https://www.mdpi.com/2624-5175/2/1/3/htm https://www.mdpi.com/2624-5175/2/1/3/htm
- throw0101a 6y ago
  > Your claim that there’s strong consensus isn’t true. Are there any chronobiology or sleep societies that are advocating either (a) leaving the twice-yearly time jump as it is or (b) switching to year-round DST? > Scientists around the world support this initiative to adopt Standard Time, and statements have been issued by the U.S.-based Society for Research on Biological Rhythms, the European Biological Rhythms Society, and the European Sleep Research Society. As Canadian biological rhythm researchers supporting evidence-based policy, we strongly recommend a switch to permanent Standard Time. * https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-turn-back-the-clock-on-daylight-savings-why-standard-time-all-year/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-turn-back-th... * https://archive.is/f441n https://archive.is/f441n (in case of paywall) The main regions that do DST are US, Canada, and EU (30-50˚ latitude): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_by_countr... And all of the societies that cover these areas say (AFAICT) go to year-round Standard Time.