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Good. Unions ultimately get entangled with regulators and its harmful for everyone. Look no further than public school teachers, getting paid, refuse to work. M

Good. Unions ultimately get entangled with regulators and its harmful for everyone. Look no further than public school teachers, getting paid, refuse to work. Meanwhile private school teachers have been working.. if you hate working at Amazon, quit.

dybber 6y ago
Your experience with unions seems very limited, please read about unions in countries where the system isn't broken.
- andrew_ 6y ago
  Unfortunately we're discussing unions forming in a country where there are a lot of issues with dysfunctional unions, and some less than stellar, high-profile history. It will be impossible to dismiss that when having the discussion when the context is within the United States.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Which is really sad, given that it was one of the countries that it was on their genesis.
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  The challenge I have with looking at unions in countries that 'do it right', so to speak, is that the union Amazon employees are looking to make will end up being an American-style union.
  - busterarm 6y ago
    It's telling that when shown overwhelmingly that private-sector unions in America are hopelessly broken and corrupt that the only solution the pro-union folks have for the problem is "more unionization". I've been in three different unions and would never "join" one again [my participation was mandatory for the job in each case] and would change careers if my field unionized significantly. I remember a local news story once where a baker at a local grocery store was caught on film urinating in the cake batter for the store's cakes. His termination was fought, successfully, by the union for violating rules they'd negotiated around filming. That's not a win for anyone.
    - BitwiseFool 6y ago
      There are so many horror stories about union employees who deserve to be fired but are defended vigorously by the union itself. Why does this happen? What do these unions have to gain by defending the actions of their worst members?
      - busterarm 6y ago
        It's like lawyers defending horrible people. They are entitled to it. The issue that I have with it is I've seen plenty of normal terminations where the unions should have done something and didn't. Of the three unions that I have been in, largely they didn't do shit for me other than take my money. The union didn't help me when I was being sexually harassed by my manager nor did the union help me when my time clock was being manipulated to short me pay. Also, I've worked some of the shittiest minimum wage jobs America has to offer and I think it's a crock of shit that people _need_ collective bargaining to get a fair deal. It's entirely possible to negotiate a fair employment situation as long as we teach people about boundaries, the law and how to work effectively. Since becoming a "grown up", I've been able to negotiate my salary and terms of employment quite well. And more importantly, much better than anyone collectively bargaining would be able to for me.
- franklampard 6y ago
  For example?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
js2 6y ago
Minimally, public sector unions should be discussed separately from private sector unions. FDR warned against the former: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/letter-the-resolution-federation-federal-employees-against-strikes-federal-service https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/letter-the-resolut...
gegtik 6y ago
unions are corrupt, wasteful, and the only organization that is structurally aligned with workers despite all those drawbacks. Your boss is not your friend, and you are only one person. you lose.
cratermoon 6y ago
> Unions ultimately get entangled with regulators Oh? Show me one major regulatory body in the US that has as many union leaders running it as it does leaders from the industries it regulates.

dybber 6y ago

Your experience with unions seems very limited, please read about unions in countries where the system isn't broken.

andrew_ 6y ago
Unfortunately we're discussing unions forming in a country where there are a lot of issues with dysfunctional unions, and some less than stellar, high-profile history. It will be impossible to dismiss that when having the discussion when the context is within the United States.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Which is really sad, given that it was one of the countries that it was on their genesis.
BitwiseFool 6y ago
The challenge I have with looking at unions in countries that 'do it right', so to speak, is that the union Amazon employees are looking to make will end up being an American-style union.
- busterarm 6y ago
  It's telling that when shown overwhelmingly that private-sector unions in America are hopelessly broken and corrupt that the only solution the pro-union folks have for the problem is "more unionization". I've been in three different unions and would never "join" one again [my participation was mandatory for the job in each case] and would change careers if my field unionized significantly. I remember a local news story once where a baker at a local grocery store was caught on film urinating in the cake batter for the store's cakes. His termination was fought, successfully, by the union for violating rules they'd negotiated around filming. That's not a win for anyone.
  - BitwiseFool 6y ago
    There are so many horror stories about union employees who deserve to be fired but are defended vigorously by the union itself. Why does this happen? What do these unions have to gain by defending the actions of their worst members?
    - busterarm 6y ago
      It's like lawyers defending horrible people. They are entitled to it. The issue that I have with it is I've seen plenty of normal terminations where the unions should have done something and didn't. Of the three unions that I have been in, largely they didn't do shit for me other than take my money. The union didn't help me when I was being sexually harassed by my manager nor did the union help me when my time clock was being manipulated to short me pay. Also, I've worked some of the shittiest minimum wage jobs America has to offer and I think it's a crock of shit that people _need_ collective bargaining to get a fair deal. It's entirely possible to negotiate a fair employment situation as long as we teach people about boundaries, the law and how to work effectively. Since becoming a "grown up", I've been able to negotiate my salary and terms of employment quite well. And more importantly, much better than anyone collectively bargaining would be able to for me.
franklampard 6y ago
For example?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

js2 6y ago

Minimally, public sector unions should be discussed separately from private sector unions. FDR warned against the former: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/letter-the-resolution-federation-federal-employees-against-strikes-federal-service https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/letter-the-resolut...

gegtik 6y ago

unions are corrupt, wasteful, and the only organization that is structurally aligned with workers despite all those drawbacks. Your boss is not your friend, and you are only one person. you lose.

cratermoon 6y ago

> Unions ultimately get entangled with regulators Oh? Show me one major regulatory body in the US that has as many union leaders running it as it does leaders from the industries it regulates.