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I don't get it, why do workers need to vote in order to start/join a union? Why would the company care if they do join a union? Can't they simply refuse to neg

by jdasdf 6y ago

I don't get it, why do workers need to vote in order to start/join a union? Why would the company care if they do join a union? Can't they simply refuse to negotiate with the union?

andyjohnson0 6y ago
"Your Right to Form a Union "Not represented by a union, but want to be? If a majority of workers wants to form a union, they can select a union in one of two ways: If at least 30% of workers sign cards or a petition saying they want a union, the NLRB will conduct an election. If a majority of those who vote choose the union, the NLRB will certify the union as your representative for collective bargaining. An election is not the only way a union can become your representative. Your employer may voluntarily recognize a union based on evidence - typically signed union-authorization cards - that a majority of employees want it to represent them. Once a union has been certified or recognized, the employer is required to bargain over your terms and conditions of employment with your union representative. Special rules apply in the construction industry." https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/whats-law https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/whats-law That's in the US obviously.
- jdasdf 6y ago
  > Once a union has been certified or recognized, the employer is required to bargain over your terms and conditions of employment with your union representative. Oh. So once again bad laws cause the whole problem...
  - cratermoon 6y ago
    Those same "bad laws" are why you have a 5-day work week, your retirement plan, overtime (if you are hourly), safe working conditions, sick leave. The list goes on. If you think you'd like to go back before the time when unions didn't exist, let me direct you to the work of photographer Lewis Hine
    - nickpp 6y ago
      We have those thanks to the increase of productivity and competition between employees, not some unions hundreds of years ago. Maybe that was the reason initially but time has passed and today's situation favours the employee in most fields.
      - cratermoon 6y ago
        > competition between employees Ah yes, the invocation of the Free Market Fairy https://bitworking.org/news/2008/01/the-free-market-fairy/ https://bitworking.org/news/2008/01/the-free-market-fairy/
      - AlexandrB 6y ago
        > Maybe that was the reason initially but time has passed and today's situation favours the employee in most fields. Most fields except: retail, food service, food delivery, warehouse work, customer service/support, auto repair, etc. Basically, half the people in the US if not more.
        nickpp 6y ago
        Most fields where the added value is equivalent to that of a (basically) robot and where the labor pool is more than "any able body" and thus the supply side is ridiculously unlimited. Society rewards contribution it finds valuable. The amount of that reward is an extremely valuable signal for people to find ways to increase the quality or quantity of their contribution.
      - EliRivers 6y ago
        today's situation favours the employee in most fields I guess employees are choosing to let rich people take all the wealth they generate, then. How very generous of employees. I guess what I'm basically saying is that the evidence indicates that what you just said is bullshit.
        nickpp 6y ago
        I guess am not aware of any evidence of "rich people take all the wealth". I know there are organisational structures in which all kinds of people cooperate to create wealth which is then distributed along to clearly agreed and understood rules to funders, investors and workers. They are called companies and all participants are adult, informed and consenting.
cestith 6y ago
One person can join a union. They might, depending on the union, get extra insurance or legal representation or some other benefit not tied to negotiation with the employer. A one-person strike is generally considered a resignation, though. One core function of a union is as a collective bargaining group. It's difficult to collectively bargain when your collection is one person.
munificent 6y ago
> Why would the company care if they do join a union? The fundamental goal of a union is to force executives at a company to do things that benefit workers that they wouldn't otherwise do. > Can't they simply refuse to negotiate with the union? If the union has a small enough fraction of their employee base as members such that they company can afford the productivity loss of a strike, yes. Once a large enough fraction of workers are in the union, the threat of a strike puts enough pressure on executives that it is in their best interest to negotiate.

by jdasdf 6y ago

I don't get it, why do workers need to vote in order to start/join a union? Why would the company care if they do join a union? Can't they simply refuse to negotiate with the union?

andyjohnson0 6y ago

"Your Right to Form a Union "Not represented by a union, but want to be? If a majority of workers wants to form a union, they can select a union in one of two ways: If at least 30% of workers sign cards or a petition saying they want a union, the NLRB will conduct an election. If a majority of those who vote choose the union, the NLRB will certify the union as your representative for collective bargaining. An election is not the only way a union can become your representative. Your employer may voluntarily recognize a union based on evidence - typically signed union-authorization cards - that a majority of employees want it to represent them. Once a union has been certified or recognized, the employer is required to bargain over your terms and conditions of employment with your union representative. Special rules apply in the construction industry." https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/whats-law https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/whats-law That's in the US obviously.

jdasdf 6y ago
> Once a union has been certified or recognized, the employer is required to bargain over your terms and conditions of employment with your union representative. Oh. So once again bad laws cause the whole problem...
- cratermoon 6y ago
  Those same "bad laws" are why you have a 5-day work week, your retirement plan, overtime (if you are hourly), safe working conditions, sick leave. The list goes on. If you think you'd like to go back before the time when unions didn't exist, let me direct you to the work of photographer Lewis Hine
  - nickpp 6y ago
    We have those thanks to the increase of productivity and competition between employees, not some unions hundreds of years ago. Maybe that was the reason initially but time has passed and today's situation favours the employee in most fields.
    - cratermoon 6y ago
      > competition between employees Ah yes, the invocation of the Free Market Fairy https://bitworking.org/news/2008/01/the-free-market-fairy/ https://bitworking.org/news/2008/01/the-free-market-fairy/
    - AlexandrB 6y ago
      > Maybe that was the reason initially but time has passed and today's situation favours the employee in most fields. Most fields except: retail, food service, food delivery, warehouse work, customer service/support, auto repair, etc. Basically, half the people in the US if not more.
      - nickpp 6y ago
        Most fields where the added value is equivalent to that of a (basically) robot and where the labor pool is more than "any able body" and thus the supply side is ridiculously unlimited. Society rewards contribution it finds valuable. The amount of that reward is an extremely valuable signal for people to find ways to increase the quality or quantity of their contribution.
    - EliRivers 6y ago
      today's situation favours the employee in most fields I guess employees are choosing to let rich people take all the wealth they generate, then. How very generous of employees. I guess what I'm basically saying is that the evidence indicates that what you just said is bullshit.
      - nickpp 6y ago
        I guess am not aware of any evidence of "rich people take all the wealth". I know there are organisational structures in which all kinds of people cooperate to create wealth which is then distributed along to clearly agreed and understood rules to funders, investors and workers. They are called companies and all participants are adult, informed and consenting.

cestith 6y ago

One person can join a union. They might, depending on the union, get extra insurance or legal representation or some other benefit not tied to negotiation with the employer. A one-person strike is generally considered a resignation, though. One core function of a union is as a collective bargaining group. It's difficult to collectively bargain when your collection is one person.

munificent 6y ago

> Why would the company care if they do join a union? The fundamental goal of a union is to force executives at a company to do things that benefit workers that they wouldn't otherwise do. > Can't they simply refuse to negotiate with the union? If the union has a small enough fraction of their employee base as members such that they company can afford the productivity loss of a strike, yes. Once a large enough fraction of workers are in the union, the threat of a strike puts enough pressure on executives that it is in their best interest to negotiate.