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Can anyone enlighten and explain why there were restrictions in the first place?

by jy3 6y ago

nullifidian 6y ago
The official reason is availability -- it's nigh impossible for a gamer to buy a GPU right now for something close to MSRP. The real reason is probably a desire to prevent miners from selling their GPUs on the second hand market, thus increasing sales of new GPUs.
- zokier 6y ago
  Nvidia is still trying to fulfill orders for 3080 from launch day. The availability problem is real. They do not need to artificially increase the demand for their GPUs if they already are selling way more than they can deliver.
  - arianon 6y ago
    That's true today, but will it remain true when the cryptocurrency bull run ends, we enter a bear market, and mining becomes far less profitable? Not just that, but the most profitable coin to mine, Ethereum, is on track to move away from Proof-of-Work, so we can expect a lot of second-hand cards to be sold at fire-sale prices in 2022.
- madamelic 6y ago
  The problem isn't miners. The problem is no one wants to stop bots and scalpers from buying them en masse. If eBay prevented scalping and e-commerce created bot protections, demand would stop being absurd. Nvidia stopped selling cards on their site because they couldn't figure out how to prevent bots from buying them all. Not to mention Nvidia is selling cards directly to large miners by the pallet load.
  - chickenpotpie 6y ago
    I don’t think scalpers can drive up prices long term. What’s the difference between all the scalpers having the cards and nvidia having the cards? Either way people are only going to pay what the card is worth to them. If cryptocurrency miners buy the cards, they’re not reselling them.
  - paulmd 6y ago
    Why should ebay prevent scalping? That's the entire reason their site exists, to see who is willing to pay the most for scarce goods. Ebay is not going to go away just because it hurts gamers' fee-fees. Nor should it. And I say this as someone who is generally opposed to mining and generally upset with 30-series availability. Demanding that ebay shut down is both a ludicrous over-reaction and will not solve anything anyway. You're literally blaming the market for providing a clearing-price. If you want to reduce demand for gaming cards, forcing miners into their own product segment is the most plausible way to do that, then the clearing-price falls.
Guthur 6y ago
There is evidence that many of the new GPUs are being bought by crypto miners and there is vocal out cry because some feel these cards should be for consumers (gamers), which is frankly bizarre.
- MereInterest 6y ago
  I don't know what is bizarre about it. I think cryptocurrencies are fundamentally flawed due to their environmental impact, and should be banned on that merit alone. Add in the inability to reverse fraudulent transactions and their role in the rise of ransomware, and cryptocurrencies are easily something that should be banned. I don't see it as bizarre to be frustrated that one's hobby is being priced out of reach by what amounts to an environmentally-damaging pyramid scheme.
  - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
    >I think cryptocurrencies are fundamentally flawed due to their environmental impact, and should be banned on that merit alone A GPU is a GPU, why is it's environmental impact fine if it's 31 million people pretending to be a cowboy in RDR2 but bad if it's being used for financial transactions.
    - MereInterest 6y ago
      For the same reason that sending a letter to a friend is different from using the "Send-a-Dime" chain letter. One is something that improves the human condition and brings enjoyment, while the other is a pyramid scheme with negative externalities under the guise of a get-rich-quick scheme.
      - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
        My crypto investments have definitely improved my life more than Red Dead Redemption 2 did so I disagree.
        6y ago
MereInterest 6y ago
Remember about ten years ago, how there was a fad to raise money, then use it to buy every single item on the shelves of a small convenience store? The intention was to keep small locally-owned stores in business by buying more from them. However, even though it brought a lot of profit on that one day, it meant that the shelves were empty for the next few weeks. The regulars saw that, and needed to find somewhere else to shop. The regulars left, and some never came back, leaving the store in worse financial position as before. Cryptocurrency miners are driving up the prices of GPUs. NVIDIA wants to make sure that they have stock available for their regular customers, because that is where the long-term profit comes from. Ramping up production is not feasible on the short time scale that cryptocurrencies have been around, nor is it known whether cryptocurrencies will be around for long enough to recover such an investment. TL;DR: Cryptocurrency miners are messing up the long-term GPU market, and NVIDIA is trying to maintain that market.
- Rule35 6y ago
  But they didn't want to think about it for even five minutes and figure out a friendly way to do this. They should have given gaming sites purchase invites to hand out to members. There are other ideas too, higher prices on raw hardware but cash-back incentives if bought with games or gaming hardware. Now everyone hates them. AMD couldn't have paid for such marketing. AMD gives everyone ECC support, unlocked cards. They're (currently) the anti Intel/Nvidia, and the market darling.
- madamelic 6y ago
  >Ramping up production is not feasible on the short time scale that cryptocurrencies have been around, nor is it known whether cryptocurrencies will be around for long enough to recover such an investment. Bitcoin has been around since 2010. They've had plenty of time to realize this was coming. Even the thickest person could've spotted this wave coming in 2013, in addition to the continued rise of computer and console gaming.
  - bonestamp2 6y ago
    Hard to say. I started mining bitcoin in 2013 and it had already moved past GPUs. Bitcoin wasn't taken very seriously back then, and the alt coins were taken even less seriously, so I can see NVidia not taking it seriously too.
josefx 6y ago
Officially it is a supply/demand issue. The crypto miners are buying up all the high end cards, so NVIDIAs main target audience (gamers, workstations, etc.) end up empty handed. What a lot of people seem to think: Used up cards could end up flooding the market while miners migrate to the newest cards, cutting into NVIDIAs profit or NVIDIA wants to make more money by selling pure mining cards that can't be reused for anything else.
- mamon 6y ago
  This doesn't make sense to me: why don't they simply price their cards 3x higher and sell them all to miners? Selling to the highest bidder is kind of "Capitalism 101". Their profits would skyrocket. And what about gamers? Well... they can buy used previous gen cards from miners.
  - josefx 6y ago
    Some companies might be interested in keeping their long term market happy instead of loosing their flagship products to what they might consider a relatively short lived craze. > Well... they can buy used previous gen cards from miners. Yeah, last gen cards, which would ruin any lead NVIDIA has over its competition. Going by the steam hardware survey NVIDIA currently owns the PC market, that wont last if they whole inventory is bought up by crypto miners and might lead to serious long term consequences if gamers and engine developers shift their focus to AMD and Intel.

Can anyone enlighten and explain why there were restrictions in the first place?

by jy3 6y ago

Can anyone enlighten and explain why there were restrictions in the first place?

The official reason is availability -- it's nigh impossible for a gamer to buy a GPU right now for something close to MSRP. The real reason is probably a desire to prevent miners from selling their GPUs on the second hand market, thus increasing sales of new GPUs.

zokier 6y ago
Nvidia is still trying to fulfill orders for 3080 from launch day. The availability problem is real. They do not need to artificially increase the demand for their GPUs if they already are selling way more than they can deliver.
- arianon 6y ago
  That's true today, but will it remain true when the cryptocurrency bull run ends, we enter a bear market, and mining becomes far less profitable? Not just that, but the most profitable coin to mine, Ethereum, is on track to move away from Proof-of-Work, so we can expect a lot of second-hand cards to be sold at fire-sale prices in 2022.
madamelic 6y ago
The problem isn't miners. The problem is no one wants to stop bots and scalpers from buying them en masse. If eBay prevented scalping and e-commerce created bot protections, demand would stop being absurd. Nvidia stopped selling cards on their site because they couldn't figure out how to prevent bots from buying them all. Not to mention Nvidia is selling cards directly to large miners by the pallet load.
- chickenpotpie 6y ago
  I don’t think scalpers can drive up prices long term. What’s the difference between all the scalpers having the cards and nvidia having the cards? Either way people are only going to pay what the card is worth to them. If cryptocurrency miners buy the cards, they’re not reselling them.
- paulmd 6y ago
  Why should ebay prevent scalping? That's the entire reason their site exists, to see who is willing to pay the most for scarce goods. Ebay is not going to go away just because it hurts gamers' fee-fees. Nor should it. And I say this as someone who is generally opposed to mining and generally upset with 30-series availability. Demanding that ebay shut down is both a ludicrous over-reaction and will not solve anything anyway. You're literally blaming the market for providing a clearing-price. If you want to reduce demand for gaming cards, forcing miners into their own product segment is the most plausible way to do that, then the clearing-price falls.

Guthur 6y ago

There is evidence that many of the new GPUs are being bought by crypto miners and there is vocal out cry because some feel these cards should be for consumers (gamers), which is frankly bizarre.

MereInterest 6y ago
I don't know what is bizarre about it. I think cryptocurrencies are fundamentally flawed due to their environmental impact, and should be banned on that merit alone. Add in the inability to reverse fraudulent transactions and their role in the rise of ransomware, and cryptocurrencies are easily something that should be banned. I don't see it as bizarre to be frustrated that one's hobby is being priced out of reach by what amounts to an environmentally-damaging pyramid scheme.
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  >I think cryptocurrencies are fundamentally flawed due to their environmental impact, and should be banned on that merit alone A GPU is a GPU, why is it's environmental impact fine if it's 31 million people pretending to be a cowboy in RDR2 but bad if it's being used for financial transactions.
  - MereInterest 6y ago
    For the same reason that sending a letter to a friend is different from using the "Send-a-Dime" chain letter. One is something that improves the human condition and brings enjoyment, while the other is a pyramid scheme with negative externalities under the guise of a get-rich-quick scheme.
    - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
      My crypto investments have definitely improved my life more than Red Dead Redemption 2 did so I disagree.
      - 6y ago

MereInterest 6y ago

Remember about ten years ago, how there was a fad to raise money, then use it to buy every single item on the shelves of a small convenience store? The intention was to keep small locally-owned stores in business by buying more from them. However, even though it brought a lot of profit on that one day, it meant that the shelves were empty for the next few weeks. The regulars saw that, and needed to find somewhere else to shop. The regulars left, and some never came back, leaving the store in worse financial position as before. Cryptocurrency miners are driving up the prices of GPUs. NVIDIA wants to make sure that they have stock available for their regular customers, because that is where the long-term profit comes from. Ramping up production is not feasible on the short time scale that cryptocurrencies have been around, nor is it known whether cryptocurrencies will be around for long enough to recover such an investment. TL;DR: Cryptocurrency miners are messing up the long-term GPU market, and NVIDIA is trying to maintain that market.

Rule35 6y ago
But they didn't want to think about it for even five minutes and figure out a friendly way to do this. They should have given gaming sites purchase invites to hand out to members. There are other ideas too, higher prices on raw hardware but cash-back incentives if bought with games or gaming hardware. Now everyone hates them. AMD couldn't have paid for such marketing. AMD gives everyone ECC support, unlocked cards. They're (currently) the anti Intel/Nvidia, and the market darling.
madamelic 6y ago
>Ramping up production is not feasible on the short time scale that cryptocurrencies have been around, nor is it known whether cryptocurrencies will be around for long enough to recover such an investment. Bitcoin has been around since 2010. They've had plenty of time to realize this was coming. Even the thickest person could've spotted this wave coming in 2013, in addition to the continued rise of computer and console gaming.
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  Hard to say. I started mining bitcoin in 2013 and it had already moved past GPUs. Bitcoin wasn't taken very seriously back then, and the alt coins were taken even less seriously, so I can see NVidia not taking it seriously too.

josefx 6y ago

Officially it is a supply/demand issue. The crypto miners are buying up all the high end cards, so NVIDIAs main target audience (gamers, workstations, etc.) end up empty handed. What a lot of people seem to think: Used up cards could end up flooding the market while miners migrate to the newest cards, cutting into NVIDIAs profit or NVIDIA wants to make more money by selling pure mining cards that can't be reused for anything else.

mamon 6y ago
This doesn't make sense to me: why don't they simply price their cards 3x higher and sell them all to miners? Selling to the highest bidder is kind of "Capitalism 101". Their profits would skyrocket. And what about gamers? Well... they can buy used previous gen cards from miners.
- josefx 6y ago
  Some companies might be interested in keeping their long term market happy instead of loosing their flagship products to what they might consider a relatively short lived craze. > Well... they can buy used previous gen cards from miners. Yeah, last gen cards, which would ruin any lead NVIDIA has over its competition. Going by the steam hardware survey NVIDIA currently owns the PC market, that wont last if they whole inventory is bought up by crypto miners and might lead to serious long term consequences if gamers and engine developers shift their focus to AMD and Intel.