4 ms·

I agree that there is so much variation in people’s reaction to the vaccine. My 99 year old Dad had very little negative reaction. I felt shitty for one day aft

I agree that there is so much variation in people’s reaction to the vaccine. My 99 year old Dad had very little negative reaction. I felt shitty for one day after my second vaccination. My Dentist has been missing about 1/3 of work days, periodically feeling very poorly for a few days. Most of my friends and family had just mild reactions. I am in general skeptical about some vaccines, especially loading infants up on many vaccines all at once. However, with COVID-19, I think the general risk is worth keeping the global economy from complete collapse (if that is even possible).

prithee 6y ago
My understanding is that this "reaction" is just immune response, and since you likely have a strong immune system than your father you saw a stronger reaction, both of which would likely be less deleterious than if your father contracted COVID directly.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  Keep in mind that a runaway immune response is also what kills covid patients.
AndrewBissell 6y ago
> However, with COVID-19, I think the general risk is worth keeping the global economy from complete collapse (if that is even possible). We could simply reopen the economy at any point. There are more than enough counterexamples around to demonstrate that lockdowns do not eliminate Covid-19, and that a lack of lockdowns does not lead to endless piles of dead bodies in the streets. Lack of sufficient vaccination is not what is keeping the economy closed -- its usefulness in driving forward certain agendas is. The vaccines aren't even promising anything close to 100% effectiveness, particularly not among the highest risk groups (who were excluded from the clinical trials). "We can go back to normal soon if everyone just does this one thing" has been the carrot dangled in front of people's noses to get them agreeing to measures of dubious effectiveness since the start of the pandemic. If the virus mutates in the fall and winter and boosters have to be rolled out again, we'll either "have to" shut the economy back down until everyone gets shots in their arms again (in which case these vaccines are a poor preventative against economic damage) or we'll accept the need to live with some amount of endemic Covid spread (in which case it was certainly not lack of vaccines keeping us from reopening).
- renaudg 6y ago
  > There are more than enough counterexamples around Citation needed.
  - AndrewBissell 6y ago
    Lockdowns do not eliminate Covid-19: UK, California, New York, France, hell even Japan. Also pretty much the entirety of pre-Covid epidemiological science. Lack of lockdowns does not lead to mass death: Sweden, Florida, South Dakota, vast portions of the Global South.
    - admax88q 6y ago
      I guess it depends on your definition of "mass deaths" The US has 500k deaths so far, I consider that pretty massive. Lockdown _did_ eliminate covid in New Zealand, so there are examples both ways. It's pretty clear that there's a spectrum of lockdowns and their effectiveness. Personally I would rather you all stayed home for 2 weeks rather than sacrifice my grandparents for the economy. The lockdowns in much of the western world were pretty weak overall. So many caveats and exceptions. It was "lockdown except for that which is _too_ inconvenient for my voting base"
      - logicchains 6y ago
        https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... found "Rapid border closures, full lockdowns, and wide-spread testing were not associated with COVID-19 mortality per million people.". https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.604339/full#SM6 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.6043... found "Stringency of the measures settled to fight pandemia, including lockdown, did not appear to be linked with death rate." The lockdowns didn't help your grandparents at all, all they did was destroy the lives of many young people and business owners, and plunge over a hundred million people worldwide into extreme poverty: https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-health-ap-top-news-addis-ababa-general-news-727c2dea29daed6e226b964f8caadfcf https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-health-ap-top-news-addi.... > Personally I would rather you all stayed home for 2 weeks rather than sacrifice my grandparents for the economy. If you think the life of your grandparents is worth more than a hundred million people in poor countries being able to put food on their table, you're incredibly selfish.

prithee 6y ago

My understanding is that this "reaction" is just immune response, and since you likely have a strong immune system than your father you saw a stronger reaction, both of which would likely be less deleterious than if your father contracted COVID directly.

s1artibartfast 6y ago
Keep in mind that a runaway immune response is also what kills covid patients.

AndrewBissell 6y ago

> However, with COVID-19, I think the general risk is worth keeping the global economy from complete collapse (if that is even possible). We could simply reopen the economy at any point. There are more than enough counterexamples around to demonstrate that lockdowns do not eliminate Covid-19, and that a lack of lockdowns does not lead to endless piles of dead bodies in the streets. Lack of sufficient vaccination is not what is keeping the economy closed -- its usefulness in driving forward certain agendas is. The vaccines aren't even promising anything close to 100% effectiveness, particularly not among the highest risk groups (who were excluded from the clinical trials). "We can go back to normal soon if everyone just does this one thing" has been the carrot dangled in front of people's noses to get them agreeing to measures of dubious effectiveness since the start of the pandemic. If the virus mutates in the fall and winter and boosters have to be rolled out again, we'll either "have to" shut the economy back down until everyone gets shots in their arms again (in which case these vaccines are a poor preventative against economic damage) or we'll accept the need to live with some amount of endemic Covid spread (in which case it was certainly not lack of vaccines keeping us from reopening).

renaudg 6y ago
> There are more than enough counterexamples around Citation needed.
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  Lockdowns do not eliminate Covid-19: UK, California, New York, France, hell even Japan. Also pretty much the entirety of pre-Covid epidemiological science. Lack of lockdowns does not lead to mass death: Sweden, Florida, South Dakota, vast portions of the Global South.
  - admax88q 6y ago
    I guess it depends on your definition of "mass deaths" The US has 500k deaths so far, I consider that pretty massive. Lockdown _did_ eliminate covid in New Zealand, so there are examples both ways. It's pretty clear that there's a spectrum of lockdowns and their effectiveness. Personally I would rather you all stayed home for 2 weeks rather than sacrifice my grandparents for the economy. The lockdowns in much of the western world were pretty weak overall. So many caveats and exceptions. It was "lockdown except for that which is _too_ inconvenient for my voting base"
    - logicchains 6y ago
      https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... found "Rapid border closures, full lockdowns, and wide-spread testing were not associated with COVID-19 mortality per million people.". https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.604339/full#SM6 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.6043... found "Stringency of the measures settled to fight pandemia, including lockdown, did not appear to be linked with death rate." The lockdowns didn't help your grandparents at all, all they did was destroy the lives of many young people and business owners, and plunge over a hundred million people worldwide into extreme poverty: https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-health-ap-top-news-addis-ababa-general-news-727c2dea29daed6e226b964f8caadfcf https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-health-ap-top-news-addi.... > Personally I would rather you all stayed home for 2 weeks rather than sacrifice my grandparents for the economy. If you think the life of your grandparents is worth more than a hundred million people in poor countries being able to put food on their table, you're incredibly selfish.