4 ms·

EU bureaucrats in disbelief that words on paper mean little in exigent times. This is one of the big problems with the EU when it comes to geopolitical issues

EU bureaucrats in disbelief that words on paper mean little in exigent times. This is one of the big problems with the EU when it comes to geopolitical issues and security. Way too dependent on diplomacy and then always get surprised when other entities simply break the rules. I guess maybe the lack of foresight is because they are used to lording it over the EU member states (with a couple of exceptions) and then expect non-EU states to be equally complacent. Instead of wasting time negotiating on price, they should have built manufacturing capacity within EU borders.

hef19898 6y ago
The EU followed a multi source strategy, the additional production capacity was only needed when the EU was kind of forced to order more. Even if that wasn't really needed, because more =|= faster, and faster was the real issue. The initial EU plan was to order more than needed, and share these doses with poorer countries outside the EU. Solid plan, badly communicated with badly negotiated contracts and a total lack of coordination and planning on behalf of the member states. As a result, we got the mess we have now.
fvdessen 6y ago
The EU has paid AstraZeneca to build manufacturing capacity within EU borders, but a big part of that capacity is used to supply the UK. AstraZeneca has also quite smartly been extremely slow to file the necessary paperwork to make those plants EU compliant so that even with export controls, the capacity of those plants cannot be used by Europe. Edit: The comment originally claimed that EU made vaccines were exported to the USA, this is actually not the case
- ericmay 6y ago
  Why is that? And why doesn’t the E.U. send police or military to stop shipments from leaving the E.U. if they are in violation of contractual obligations or law? But also, as E.U. member states are suspending the AstraZeneca vaccine why is it even a problem that the shipments are leaving the E.U.? I find the response and handling of the entire situation by the E.U. to be a bit perplexing.
  - djbebs 6y ago
    Because its not true
  - thu2111 6y ago
    They did. They blocked shipments from a factory in Italy. But this is a bad idea for all sorts of reasons: 1. No actual contract violation appears to be occurring. See my other comments. 2. Supply chains for vaccines are long and complex. The EU risks retaliation by other countries that block supplies to them in return. 3. EU has publicly proclaimed many times it hates the idea of "vaccine nationalism" as it calls it, by which it means countries blocking exports of things. Then they did it, it makes them hypocritical. 4. When governments intervene in third party contracts it makes that part of the world less safe to do business. The company is out of pocket and left to pick up the pieces with the customers. Companies hate that and it's ultimately companies, in a capitalist economy, who do the bulk of the work in society. So making it hard for them to do that means you're less likely to have such companies next time around. Indeed EU already has a problem in the sense that most vaccines are produced by companies outside its borders, even if some factories are within it. As for why they are suspending the vaccine whilst also demanding more of it, the suspensions appear to be political? AZ have claimed that the rate of blood clotting issues is actually lower in the vaccinated population than the average population, i.e. vaccines are not causing those issues, it's just coincidence. I don't really know how to interpret this claim - would that imply the vaccine is actually suppressing blood clotting problems? But so far AZ have a track record of making correct claims, and the EU does not, so I am inclined to believe them if that's what the stats say (they don't try to explain the lower incidence rates amongst vaccinated populations, just note that it exists).
  - luch 6y ago
    Ursula Van der Leyen actually tried that and it's considered its biggest political mistake : https://industryeurope.com/sectors/politics-economics/ec-president-claims-responsibility-for-irish-uk-vaccine-export-ban/ https://industryeurope.com/sectors/politics-economics/ec-pre... Basically by doing so the EU would take Ireland "hostage" over its commercial war with the UK, and it's something the Irish people took very badly. Concerning the suspension, we just don't have enough info. The EU medical authority is due to talk officially about it next Thursday, but if every EU country is suspending it in advance, I think it will be officially banned/suspended
- easytiger 6y ago
  > but half of that capacity is used to supply the UK & the USA This isn't my understanding
- sradman 6y ago
  European AstraZeneca supply is not being shipped to the USA. The FDA will not approve AZ until the ongoing local phase III trial is complete. In the meantime, the U.S. export restrictions still apply to American manufactured AZ doses: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/11/us/politics/coronavirus-astrazeneca-united-states.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/11/us/politics/coronavirus-a...
  - fvdessen 6y ago
    Ok, I thought part of the Americans doses were manufactured in the EU, seems I was mistaken.
thu2111 6y ago
Although EU/France keeps claiming AZ are breaking the rules, they have produced no evidence this is true. Last time they tried to claim this they released a heavily redacted PDF of the contract signed with AZ but the redacting was botched, so people could see the hidden text. It showed AZ were correct about the contract (what a surprise) and the EU were lying about it. Since then they keep claiming there is some sort of contract violation but details of this violation are never elaborated on, nor is there any court case about it.
supergirl 6y ago
they are starting to block the exports so diplomacy is finished.

hef19898 6y ago

The EU followed a multi source strategy, the additional production capacity was only needed when the EU was kind of forced to order more. Even if that wasn't really needed, because more =|= faster, and faster was the real issue. The initial EU plan was to order more than needed, and share these doses with poorer countries outside the EU. Solid plan, badly communicated with badly negotiated contracts and a total lack of coordination and planning on behalf of the member states. As a result, we got the mess we have now.

fvdessen 6y ago

The EU has paid AstraZeneca to build manufacturing capacity within EU borders, but a big part of that capacity is used to supply the UK. AstraZeneca has also quite smartly been extremely slow to file the necessary paperwork to make those plants EU compliant so that even with export controls, the capacity of those plants cannot be used by Europe. Edit: The comment originally claimed that EU made vaccines were exported to the USA, this is actually not the case

ericmay 6y ago
Why is that? And why doesn’t the E.U. send police or military to stop shipments from leaving the E.U. if they are in violation of contractual obligations or law? But also, as E.U. member states are suspending the AstraZeneca vaccine why is it even a problem that the shipments are leaving the E.U.? I find the response and handling of the entire situation by the E.U. to be a bit perplexing.
- djbebs 6y ago
  Because its not true
- thu2111 6y ago
  They did. They blocked shipments from a factory in Italy. But this is a bad idea for all sorts of reasons: 1. No actual contract violation appears to be occurring. See my other comments. 2. Supply chains for vaccines are long and complex. The EU risks retaliation by other countries that block supplies to them in return. 3. EU has publicly proclaimed many times it hates the idea of "vaccine nationalism" as it calls it, by which it means countries blocking exports of things. Then they did it, it makes them hypocritical. 4. When governments intervene in third party contracts it makes that part of the world less safe to do business. The company is out of pocket and left to pick up the pieces with the customers. Companies hate that and it's ultimately companies, in a capitalist economy, who do the bulk of the work in society. So making it hard for them to do that means you're less likely to have such companies next time around. Indeed EU already has a problem in the sense that most vaccines are produced by companies outside its borders, even if some factories are within it. As for why they are suspending the vaccine whilst also demanding more of it, the suspensions appear to be political? AZ have claimed that the rate of blood clotting issues is actually lower in the vaccinated population than the average population, i.e. vaccines are not causing those issues, it's just coincidence. I don't really know how to interpret this claim - would that imply the vaccine is actually suppressing blood clotting problems? But so far AZ have a track record of making correct claims, and the EU does not, so I am inclined to believe them if that's what the stats say (they don't try to explain the lower incidence rates amongst vaccinated populations, just note that it exists).
- luch 6y ago
  Ursula Van der Leyen actually tried that and it's considered its biggest political mistake : https://industryeurope.com/sectors/politics-economics/ec-president-claims-responsibility-for-irish-uk-vaccine-export-ban/ https://industryeurope.com/sectors/politics-economics/ec-pre... Basically by doing so the EU would take Ireland "hostage" over its commercial war with the UK, and it's something the Irish people took very badly. Concerning the suspension, we just don't have enough info. The EU medical authority is due to talk officially about it next Thursday, but if every EU country is suspending it in advance, I think it will be officially banned/suspended
easytiger 6y ago
> but half of that capacity is used to supply the UK & the USA This isn't my understanding
sradman 6y ago
European AstraZeneca supply is not being shipped to the USA. The FDA will not approve AZ until the ongoing local phase III trial is complete. In the meantime, the U.S. export restrictions still apply to American manufactured AZ doses: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/11/us/politics/coronavirus-astrazeneca-united-states.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/11/us/politics/coronavirus-a...
- fvdessen 6y ago
  Ok, I thought part of the Americans doses were manufactured in the EU, seems I was mistaken.

thu2111 6y ago

Although EU/France keeps claiming AZ are breaking the rules, they have produced no evidence this is true. Last time they tried to claim this they released a heavily redacted PDF of the contract signed with AZ but the redacting was botched, so people could see the hidden text. It showed AZ were correct about the contract (what a surprise) and the EU were lying about it. Since then they keep claiming there is some sort of contract violation but details of this violation are never elaborated on, nor is there any court case about it.

supergirl 6y ago

they are starting to block the exports so diplomacy is finished.