5 ms·

The entire point of computers is to make things easy. The Apple question "why isn't this easy" is missing from 95% of UX in modern software. Stop acting as if

The entire point of computers is to make things easy. The Apple question "why isn't this easy" is missing from 95% of UX in modern software. Stop acting as if software devs are the only users of software. And even then: computers should do work and not produce work or mental overhead.

otabdeveloper4 6y ago
Are you implying Apple software and devices are "easy"? I think that's marketing, and not borne out of real experience. Try setting up a new Apple device, there is very little in IT that is as frustrating and confusing.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >Try setting up a new Apple device, there is very little in IT that is as frustrating and confusing. It's a 5 minute process, and there's very little to it that it's not optimized for ease. Any champ can do it, and millions do. Not sure what you're on about. >I think that's marketing, and not borne out of real experience. Yes, all those people are delluded.
  - otabdeveloper4 6y ago
    Clearly you've never tried it, because it's certainly not 5 minutes, it's optimized for selling you bullshit Apple services and it's buggy as hell, with no feedback to the user why everything is broken and why you're having to re-authenticate five times in a row. And good luck if you're setting up a family account for several devices with different iOS versions. You're gonna really need it.
    - monkey_monkey 6y ago
      Honestly, literally millions of people do this every year, and for most of them, it's like 10 minutes, plus the time waiting for the iCloud restore. Even my dad was able to set up his new iPad, and he's as techophobic as it gets.
      - otabdeveloper4 6y ago
        Technophobic people are exactly the target audience that has a huge tolerance for broken software built on piles of abusive bullshit.
        monkey_monkey 6y ago
        My father has very little patience for broken things, software or otherwise, so I'm really not sure what you're talking about.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      It is definitly easier than configuring any GNU/Linux distribution.
      - ensignavenger 6y ago
        Watching the video that coldtea posted, no, it is not. Ubuntu and most of its derivatives have very easy installers, and take a fraction of the time. The video didn't even include the time it would take to read and understand all the terms and conditions!
        pjmlp 6y ago
        Assuming one wants a partial working computer after installation.
        ensignavenger 6y ago
        I don't know what you mean by this- care to elaborate? I have several fully working computers running Ubuntu derivatives without having to do anything after the install.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        I bet none of them is a laptop.
        ensignavenger 6y ago
        I currently have two laptops, one a Lenovo from work with Kubuntu and the other cheap Asus with KDE Neon. Both required no additional work to be fully working after install.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >Clearly you've never tried it, because it's certainly not 5 minutes, it's optimized for selling you bullshit Apple services and it's buggy as hell I've tried it tons of times, have over 20 iOS/macOS devices over the years, and for some pervese reason, on macOS/OS X I like to install every major update on a clean disk too (and then re-import my data. It's an old Windows 95/XP-era reflex), so I do it at least once every year for my main driver (plus different new iOS devices). What part of this sounds difficult? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70u0x8Kf6j4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70u0x8Kf6j4 And the whole "optimized for selling you bullshit Apple services" is a couple of screens you can skip with one click -- and you might want to legitimately use too.
dghf 6y ago
> The Apple question "why isn't this easy" is missing from 95% of UX in modern software. I switched to a MacBook at work a few months ago, and it's been an epic of frustration and Googling: e.g., 1. I set the keyboard layout to UK PC, but it kept switching back to default. (I was accidentally mashing a keyboard shortcut designed to do just that. I've since disabled it.) 2. Clicking on a link or other web-page element will, occasionally and apparently randomly, take me back a page or two in my history rather than opening the link or activating the element. (At least in Chrome: I've not used another browser on macOS yet.) 3. Command-tabbing to a minimised application does not, as one would naively expect, automatically unminimise it. Instead I'm left staring at an apparently unchanged screen. 4. If I open Finder in a given folder, there is, as best can tell, no easy way to navigate to that folder's parent. Now arguably #1 was the fault of my own ignorance (though some kind of obvious feedback as to what was happening and why would have been nice), and #2 may be down to Google rather than Apple. But #3 and #4 are plain bad design, bordering on user-hostile. So far I'm not seeing that Apple's reputation for superior UX is justified, at least not in laptops.
- sjcoles 6y ago
  Window switching in OS X is so unintuitive it drives me MAD when you are remoting into a Mac. Finder is just god awful and does all it can to obscure your actual filesystem location but the go to folder (cmd+g?) can get you where you need to go.
- bigbizisverywyz 6y ago
  for 4. ...as best can tell, no easy way to navigate to that folder's parent You can add a button to the toolbar in Finder (customize it from options) that when dropped down will show the complete path to the current folder as a list. You can use that to move up the tree.
  - ricketycricket 6y ago
    You can also cmd + click the current directory name in the menu bar to get the same menu.
  - 6y ago

otabdeveloper4 6y ago

Are you implying Apple software and devices are "easy"? I think that's marketing, and not borne out of real experience. Try setting up a new Apple device, there is very little in IT that is as frustrating and confusing.

coldtea 6y ago
>Try setting up a new Apple device, there is very little in IT that is as frustrating and confusing. It's a 5 minute process, and there's very little to it that it's not optimized for ease. Any champ can do it, and millions do. Not sure what you're on about. >I think that's marketing, and not borne out of real experience. Yes, all those people are delluded.
- otabdeveloper4 6y ago
  Clearly you've never tried it, because it's certainly not 5 minutes, it's optimized for selling you bullshit Apple services and it's buggy as hell, with no feedback to the user why everything is broken and why you're having to re-authenticate five times in a row. And good luck if you're setting up a family account for several devices with different iOS versions. You're gonna really need it.
  - monkey_monkey 6y ago
    Honestly, literally millions of people do this every year, and for most of them, it's like 10 minutes, plus the time waiting for the iCloud restore. Even my dad was able to set up his new iPad, and he's as techophobic as it gets.
    - otabdeveloper4 6y ago
      Technophobic people are exactly the target audience that has a huge tolerance for broken software built on piles of abusive bullshit.
      - monkey_monkey 6y ago
        My father has very little patience for broken things, software or otherwise, so I'm really not sure what you're talking about.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    It is definitly easier than configuring any GNU/Linux distribution.
    - ensignavenger 6y ago
      Watching the video that coldtea posted, no, it is not. Ubuntu and most of its derivatives have very easy installers, and take a fraction of the time. The video didn't even include the time it would take to read and understand all the terms and conditions!
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Assuming one wants a partial working computer after installation.
        ensignavenger 6y ago
        I don't know what you mean by this- care to elaborate? I have several fully working computers running Ubuntu derivatives without having to do anything after the install.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        I bet none of them is a laptop.
        ensignavenger 6y ago
        I currently have two laptops, one a Lenovo from work with Kubuntu and the other cheap Asus with KDE Neon. Both required no additional work to be fully working after install.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >Clearly you've never tried it, because it's certainly not 5 minutes, it's optimized for selling you bullshit Apple services and it's buggy as hell I've tried it tons of times, have over 20 iOS/macOS devices over the years, and for some pervese reason, on macOS/OS X I like to install every major update on a clean disk too (and then re-import my data. It's an old Windows 95/XP-era reflex), so I do it at least once every year for my main driver (plus different new iOS devices). What part of this sounds difficult? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70u0x8Kf6j4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70u0x8Kf6j4 And the whole "optimized for selling you bullshit Apple services" is a couple of screens you can skip with one click -- and you might want to legitimately use too.

dghf 6y ago

> The Apple question "why isn't this easy" is missing from 95% of UX in modern software. I switched to a MacBook at work a few months ago, and it's been an epic of frustration and Googling: e.g., 1. I set the keyboard layout to UK PC, but it kept switching back to default. (I was accidentally mashing a keyboard shortcut designed to do just that. I've since disabled it.) 2. Clicking on a link or other web-page element will, occasionally and apparently randomly, take me back a page or two in my history rather than opening the link or activating the element. (At least in Chrome: I've not used another browser on macOS yet.) 3. Command-tabbing to a minimised application does not, as one would naively expect, automatically unminimise it. Instead I'm left staring at an apparently unchanged screen. 4. If I open Finder in a given folder, there is, as best can tell, no easy way to navigate to that folder's parent. Now arguably #1 was the fault of my own ignorance (though some kind of obvious feedback as to what was happening and why would have been nice), and #2 may be down to Google rather than Apple. But #3 and #4 are plain bad design, bordering on user-hostile. So far I'm not seeing that Apple's reputation for superior UX is justified, at least not in laptops.

sjcoles 6y ago
Window switching in OS X is so unintuitive it drives me MAD when you are remoting into a Mac. Finder is just god awful and does all it can to obscure your actual filesystem location but the go to folder (cmd+g?) can get you where you need to go.
bigbizisverywyz 6y ago
for 4. ...as best can tell, no easy way to navigate to that folder's parent You can add a button to the toolbar in Finder (customize it from options) that when dropped down will show the complete path to the current folder as a list. You can use that to move up the tree.
- ricketycricket 6y ago
  You can also cmd + click the current directory name in the menu bar to get the same menu.
- 6y ago