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I doubt maintenance & repair costs be more expensive for an ICE engine. The actual engine part requires little maintenance: occasional oil changes each year, sp

I doubt maintenance & repair costs be more expensive for an ICE engine. The actual engine part requires little maintenance: occasional oil changes each year, spark plugs every five years, and maybe a belt in 10 years? I guess brake pads might be more common, but those are still a once every few years thing and inexpensive. All other common repair items would the same for an EV: suspension, various ball and CV joints, tires, AC, body damage, sensors, bushings, etc

elygre 6y ago
I sometimes try to find an article I’m sure I read here at hacker news. It said something to the effect that the top ten wearables on a ICE car, measured by revenue in the auto shop market, don’t even exist on an electrical vehicle.
- fingerlocks 6y ago
  Well that’s hard to believe, unless you pedantically itemize every tiny little thing. For example, a single oil change typically requires a new oil filter, a new crush washer on the drain plug, oil, possible additives, and sometimes an air filter swap. So that’s five items right there, but we’re still talking only 20 minutes of work and $50 of maintenance.
  - rightbyte 6y ago
    Ye ... my experience with old cars is that the ICE is not the main time or money sink. Thinks like drive axis, suspension parts, wheel bearings, brakes etc is common with EVs - and those fall apart. The timing and generator belt headache is replaced by two selfdriven motors/pumps on EVs for the oil or water cooling system and servo. Hardly less mentainance and more expensive parts. The main thing is that most EVs are new so most have not had their exposed systems beaten out of spec and turned into rust yet, I assume.
arpinum 6y ago
Smooth delivery of power has surprising downstream effects. The wear on ball joints and tyres for EVs can be significantly less due to not having as much jerk (derivative of acceleration) from their motor.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  Wear on tires and ball joints are more due to increased weight and high torque from zero RPM. https://www.fleetowner.com/equipment/tires/article/21147010/contending-with-accelerated-bev-tire-wear https://www.fleetowner.com/equipment/tires/article/21147010/... Not sure why you thought otherwise.
  - arpinum 6y ago
    Cited article is about _potential_ torque loads and the need to design for it, and does not address light duty typical use case for mail delivery. Jerk causes chatter (slippage) between parts and can significantly reduce designed life. Electric motors are amazing at smoothing out discontinuities. Nokian has stated EVs are easier on tyres for this reason. In this case for short-distance batteries I estimate battery pack mass of 150kg more than ICE equipment. Increased mass would not have a major impact on ball joints and tyres, these loads will be designed in.
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      There are literally hundreds of sources you could find for how EVs have worse wear. I have no idea what you're on about with "chatter" without specifying any specific part of a drivetrain... Like your whole comment reads like someone trying to apply extremely general theoretical concern while handwaving away actually connecting it to practical application... And where are you getting the idea that: a) the weight difference will only be 150kg. These things can end up doing 50 miles with a heavily loaded truck in high heat. They'll need the same cooling systems the ICE does, they'll need battery packs over-provisioned to meet their 25 year life span mandate. b) even 150kg wouldn't increase weight. I don't know what you think "designed in" means. It means either make the parts beefier so that they can withstand greater wear before replacement, or it means replace parts more... neither option erases the problem. ICE or EV obviously they're going to design the suspension to handle the curb weight + occupants and cargo but adding to the curb weight will have the result of making something more expensive. Doesn't really matter if you're paying for it upfront or later, you're paying for it. My Spec Miata's suspension alignment was designed with my weight in mind and literally every pound counts. Even the weight of the gas in the tank opposite me can have a noticeable effect on how the suspension sits, which in turn affects tires wear. The same thing plays out on a "normal" car in much slower motion

elygre 6y ago

I sometimes try to find an article I’m sure I read here at hacker news. It said something to the effect that the top ten wearables on a ICE car, measured by revenue in the auto shop market, don’t even exist on an electrical vehicle.

fingerlocks 6y ago
Well that’s hard to believe, unless you pedantically itemize every tiny little thing. For example, a single oil change typically requires a new oil filter, a new crush washer on the drain plug, oil, possible additives, and sometimes an air filter swap. So that’s five items right there, but we’re still talking only 20 minutes of work and $50 of maintenance.
- rightbyte 6y ago
  Ye ... my experience with old cars is that the ICE is not the main time or money sink. Thinks like drive axis, suspension parts, wheel bearings, brakes etc is common with EVs - and those fall apart. The timing and generator belt headache is replaced by two selfdriven motors/pumps on EVs for the oil or water cooling system and servo. Hardly less mentainance and more expensive parts. The main thing is that most EVs are new so most have not had their exposed systems beaten out of spec and turned into rust yet, I assume.

arpinum 6y ago

Smooth delivery of power has surprising downstream effects. The wear on ball joints and tyres for EVs can be significantly less due to not having as much jerk (derivative of acceleration) from their motor.

BoorishBears 6y ago
Wear on tires and ball joints are more due to increased weight and high torque from zero RPM. https://www.fleetowner.com/equipment/tires/article/21147010/contending-with-accelerated-bev-tire-wear https://www.fleetowner.com/equipment/tires/article/21147010/... Not sure why you thought otherwise.
- arpinum 6y ago
  Cited article is about _potential_ torque loads and the need to design for it, and does not address light duty typical use case for mail delivery. Jerk causes chatter (slippage) between parts and can significantly reduce designed life. Electric motors are amazing at smoothing out discontinuities. Nokian has stated EVs are easier on tyres for this reason. In this case for short-distance batteries I estimate battery pack mass of 150kg more than ICE equipment. Increased mass would not have a major impact on ball joints and tyres, these loads will be designed in.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    There are literally hundreds of sources you could find for how EVs have worse wear. I have no idea what you're on about with "chatter" without specifying any specific part of a drivetrain... Like your whole comment reads like someone trying to apply extremely general theoretical concern while handwaving away actually connecting it to practical application... And where are you getting the idea that: a) the weight difference will only be 150kg. These things can end up doing 50 miles with a heavily loaded truck in high heat. They'll need the same cooling systems the ICE does, they'll need battery packs over-provisioned to meet their 25 year life span mandate. b) even 150kg wouldn't increase weight. I don't know what you think "designed in" means. It means either make the parts beefier so that they can withstand greater wear before replacement, or it means replace parts more... neither option erases the problem. ICE or EV obviously they're going to design the suspension to handle the curb weight + occupants and cargo but adding to the curb weight will have the result of making something more expensive. Doesn't really matter if you're paying for it upfront or later, you're paying for it. My Spec Miata's suspension alignment was designed with my weight in mind and literally every pound counts. Even the weight of the gas in the tank opposite me can have a noticeable effect on how the suspension sits, which in turn affects tires wear. The same thing plays out on a "normal" car in much slower motion