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Having a nose that crumples is helpful in case of accidents. Turns out that VW Vanagons are deathtraps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmixmEkfLu0 https://www.

Having a nose that crumples is helpful in case of accidents. Turns out that VW Vanagons are deathtraps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmixmEkfLu0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmixmEkfLu0

josho 6y ago
Did you watch the video? The Volkswagen faired as ‘safe as a car’. It was the other manufacturers that failed miserably. My conclusion from watching is that it seems like safety is a design problem that not every mfg designed for.
- olivermarks 6y ago
  ICE firewalls are designed to deflect the enginedown and under in a head on collision. Vans with engine sitting between the driver and passenger in a doghouse, or worse engine in back makes their knees first on the scene of impact with little protection. The more bodywork and chassis/monocoque between you and the crumple zone the better.
  - KingOfCoders 6y ago
    Did you watch the video? It says the exactly opposite thing. No impact to knees. No impact from steering wheel. Comparable to normal cars with hoods.
    - TylerE 6y ago
      Cars in 1984 were death traps, too.
    - olivermarks 6y ago
      Yes that was said at the time about why flat front vehicles were safe in the sixties. rule of thumb is the heavier/bigger the vehicle the more front end protection you have. These look pretty flimsy like the Grummans. Hopefully they have designed bracing into the frame to protect occupants.It's the high speed impacts by other vehicles that are the worry. Multi stop delivery is a major risk on busy roads. At least the design has the driver's feet just behind the front axle, would be interested to see the impact crumple one design. http://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/postal-worker-injured-after-head-on-collision-with-suv-in-kentucky/ http://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/postal-worker-injured-af... Separately it is going to be very hot in that cab with all that glass
- KingOfCoders 6y ago
  Not sure why you are voted down, this is exactly the content of the video. Wish I could vote you up more than +1 to restore your karma.
- TylerE 6y ago
  Cars were many times less safe in 1984.
robocat 6y ago
The Wikipedia article gives examples of safety tests where the T3 tested as relatively safe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2_(T3)#Safety_and_Crash_Tests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2_(T3)#Safety_...
- aidenn0 6y ago
  The T3 has a nose though...
  - fingerlocks 6y ago
    No it doesn’t. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter
    - aidenn0 6y ago
      I see a nose; looks like it sticks out about 6" past the bottom of the windshield? And the wikipedia article makes it sound like that is exactly the portion used as a "defomation area" to protect the legs of those in the front of the cab?
      - fingerlocks 6y ago
        If that's a nose, then what isn't a nose? The next generation Eurovan and up had a very distinct "nose", which is what is being discussed in this conversation.
KingOfCoders 6y ago
Glad I've watched the video. It says the exactly opposite of your comment. The VW is safe, can be repaired and is comparable to normal cars with a hood. This happens so often in comment sections, people drop a lengthy video, noone wants to watch a 15 minute video and they have a "proof" for their argument.
- Johnny555 6y ago
  and is comparable to normal cars with a hood Well, at least when compared to cars from 1984. I wonder how it would fare against a modern car? Cars are much safer today, the paper below says that the probability of a driver being killed in a new 2008-2012 car is 0.29 versus 0.42 in a new 1985-1993 model year car. https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811825 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... (another interesting finding from that paper is that the probability of death increases as the vehicle ages, even within the same model year)
  - kube-system 6y ago
    > (another interesting finding from that paper is that the probability of death increases as the vehicle ages, even within the same model year) Looks like they don't speculate much on it -- they mention improvements in driver behavior over time and maintenance. Not bad, but my first thoughts were: * a 20 year old vehicle is often driven by a person with a different socioeconomic situation than someone with a 1 year old vehicle, and those economic situations correlate heavily with other driving behaviors. * as vehicles are getting safer and more powerful, highway speeds are rising, so 20 year old vehicle that are just keeping up with traffic are going faster than they used to.
  - brummm 6y ago
    One could also just use the current version of that car to compare to other cars. VW has been making that type of car forever and still does.
    - Johnny555 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Theodores 6y ago
Steel has improved since then. Measures such as airbags have been introduced. Why having a red hot engine land on your lap is considered a safety bonus I will never know. Visibility is also better in the cabover design.

Having a nose that crumples is helpful in case of accidents. Turns out that VW Vanagons are deathtraps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmixmEkfLu0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmixmEkfLu0

josho 6y ago

Did you watch the video? The Volkswagen faired as ‘safe as a car’. It was the other manufacturers that failed miserably. My conclusion from watching is that it seems like safety is a design problem that not every mfg designed for.

olivermarks 6y ago
ICE firewalls are designed to deflect the enginedown and under in a head on collision. Vans with engine sitting between the driver and passenger in a doghouse, or worse engine in back makes their knees first on the scene of impact with little protection. The more bodywork and chassis/monocoque between you and the crumple zone the better.
- KingOfCoders 6y ago
  Did you watch the video? It says the exactly opposite thing. No impact to knees. No impact from steering wheel. Comparable to normal cars with hoods.
  - TylerE 6y ago
    Cars in 1984 were death traps, too.
  - olivermarks 6y ago
    Yes that was said at the time about why flat front vehicles were safe in the sixties. rule of thumb is the heavier/bigger the vehicle the more front end protection you have. These look pretty flimsy like the Grummans. Hopefully they have designed bracing into the frame to protect occupants.It's the high speed impacts by other vehicles that are the worry. Multi stop delivery is a major risk on busy roads. At least the design has the driver's feet just behind the front axle, would be interested to see the impact crumple one design. http://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/postal-worker-injured-after-head-on-collision-with-suv-in-kentucky/ http://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/postal-worker-injured-af... Separately it is going to be very hot in that cab with all that glass
KingOfCoders 6y ago
Not sure why you are voted down, this is exactly the content of the video. Wish I could vote you up more than +1 to restore your karma.
TylerE 6y ago
Cars were many times less safe in 1984.

robocat 6y ago

The Wikipedia article gives examples of safety tests where the T3 tested as relatively safe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2_(T3)#Safety_and_Crash_Tests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2_(T3)#Safety_...

aidenn0 6y ago
The T3 has a nose though...
- fingerlocks 6y ago
  No it doesn’t. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter
  - aidenn0 6y ago
    I see a nose; looks like it sticks out about 6" past the bottom of the windshield? And the wikipedia article makes it sound like that is exactly the portion used as a "defomation area" to protect the legs of those in the front of the cab?
    - fingerlocks 6y ago
      If that's a nose, then what isn't a nose? The next generation Eurovan and up had a very distinct "nose", which is what is being discussed in this conversation.

KingOfCoders 6y ago

Glad I've watched the video. It says the exactly opposite of your comment. The VW is safe, can be repaired and is comparable to normal cars with a hood. This happens so often in comment sections, people drop a lengthy video, noone wants to watch a 15 minute video and they have a "proof" for their argument.

Johnny555 6y ago
and is comparable to normal cars with a hood Well, at least when compared to cars from 1984. I wonder how it would fare against a modern car? Cars are much safer today, the paper below says that the probability of a driver being killed in a new 2008-2012 car is 0.29 versus 0.42 in a new 1985-1993 model year car. https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811825 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... (another interesting finding from that paper is that the probability of death increases as the vehicle ages, even within the same model year)
- kube-system 6y ago
  > (another interesting finding from that paper is that the probability of death increases as the vehicle ages, even within the same model year) Looks like they don't speculate much on it -- they mention improvements in driver behavior over time and maintenance. Not bad, but my first thoughts were: * a 20 year old vehicle is often driven by a person with a different socioeconomic situation than someone with a 1 year old vehicle, and those economic situations correlate heavily with other driving behaviors. * as vehicles are getting safer and more powerful, highway speeds are rising, so 20 year old vehicle that are just keeping up with traffic are going faster than they used to.
- brummm 6y ago
  One could also just use the current version of that car to compare to other cars. VW has been making that type of car forever and still does.
  - Johnny555 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Theodores 6y ago

Steel has improved since then. Measures such as airbags have been introduced. Why having a red hot engine land on your lap is considered a safety bonus I will never know. Visibility is also better in the cabover design.