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The same reason Amazon runs its own shipping network instead of relying on UPS or Fedex. At a certain scale it is cheaper to get a custom option that specifical

The same reason Amazon runs its own shipping network instead of relying on UPS or Fedex. At a certain scale it is cheaper to get a custom option that specifically fits your needs rather than retro-fitting something else. The USPS bought 100,000 of the last truck and, for example, one of the requirements was long service life. Building a truck you can use for 30 years is probably much cheaper than buying multiple lower service life trucks over that period.

chrisseaton 6y ago
> The same reason Amazon runs its own shipping network instead of relying on UPS or Fedex. Amazon use off-the-shelf vehicles though. > one of the requirements was long service life I wonder how they require that. Does the manufacturer have to warranty them all for 30 years? That's extraordinary!
- TylerE 6y ago
  That's rapidly changing. https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/transportation/amazons-custom-electric-delivery-vehicles-are-starting-to-hit-the-road https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/transportation/amazons-cust... "Just one year after announcing the purchase of 100,000 custom electric delivery vehicles as part of The Climate Pledge, Amazon has begun testing the new vans on delivery routes."
- altcognito 6y ago
  AWS also used "off-the-shelf" CPUs for a long time. That's changing as well. The USPS definitely has the scale and need for customization.
  - andoriyu 6y ago
    Not really, CPU is still "of-the-shelf". SoC is custom. That's just because you can't buy Neoverse and drop it into the motherboard, so making a custom SoC is the only way to obtain it. Donut has a good video about LLV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE5FGyq12ds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE5FGyq12ds
- dehrmann 6y ago
  I don't think Amazon does letter deliveries from the driver seat.
  - TylerE 6y ago
    Wouldn't it be funny if they did? I can imagine perhaps USPS contracting out some low volume routes to Amazon.
    - dehrmann 6y ago
      I bet it's the opposite. Amazon delivers in densely populated places where economies of scale make it work and outsources rural delivery to the USPS, an agency with a universal delivery mandate. Yes, the net effect is Amazon "leeching" off the government, but you could also view it as a subsidy to rural Americans, and the government already has a lot of those.
- dangerbird2 6y ago
  Mail trucks have pretty drastically different requirements than a parcel delivery truck. Mail trucks are designed for a right sided driver and lots of stops on every block, so good visibility to avoid crashing into oncoming traffic or hitting pedestrians in the front is obligatory. Amazon, UPS, and friends have much more infrequent stops. USPS also needs vehicles that can last for decades with much lower maintenance costs than commercial competitors. With the Biden Admin's government fleet electrification plan, they'll also need to be easily built or converted to battery-powered.
  - gsnedders 6y ago
    And this is a significant difference to how mail is delivered in most of Europe, where the vast majority of last-mile delivery is done on foot or on bike, and relatively little is done by vehicle. Density undoubtedly plays a fair role here.
    - KingOfCoders 6y ago
      I especially like that one, https://newsroom.hermesworld.com/city-logistik-hermes-testet-paketzustellung-per-lastenrad-in-berlin-15240/ https://newsroom.hermesworld.com/city-logistik-hermes-testet... Was wowed the first time I encountered one.
    - namibj 6y ago
      Not just density. Many neighborhoods aren't (safely) accessible without a car in the US. They may only be connected to a highway, with no bus service to it.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > requirements ... obligatory ... needs ... Yet other countries' mail services manage without all these things just fine?
    - jonfw 6y ago
      The US is unique in it's low population density and enormous scale of it's postal service.
- Centigonal 6y ago
  > I wonder how they require that. Does the manufacturer have to warranty them all for 30 years? That's extraordinary! In 1986, they road-tested the contract competitors' trucks for 24,000 miles, and the Grumman LLV (the truck that this new vehicle replaces) was the only one running at the end. Definitely not proof that they'd run for the intended 24 year lifespan, but I guess the USPS got lucky with the LLV (they even stretched it 6 years past the original retirement date!). https://www.nytimes.com/1986/04/09/business/postal-contract-won-by-grumman.html https://www.nytimes.com/1986/04/09/business/postal-contract-...
- toast0 6y ago
  Amazon, UPS, and FedEx all have custom vehicles. Amazon started with off the shelf vehicles, but once you get to ordering 50,000 of something, you may as well make the design fit your needs instead of only meeting them.
- jn1234 6y ago
  >Amazon use off-the-shelf vehicles though. Not for long, they even invested in Rivian, an EV manufacturer, who is going to build vehicles to their spec.
- nine_k 6y ago
  OK, both Amazon and Facebook (and likely Google, can't remember) order custom servers for their datacenters, instead of going with readily available Supermicro, Dell, HP, IBM offerings. Same reasoning here: at such a scale, having a custom-built thing optimized for a bunch of your specific requirements, and made uniform, pays off.
- Hnrobert42 6y ago
  It’s a good question. I went looking for an answer. I found this article [1] which claims the long service life owes to an engine and chassis that, while not exceptionally durable, is cheap and easy to maintain. The article also says you can learn more at llv.com. Bonus, I learned that Grumman LLV stands for Grumman Long Life Vehicle. Maybe everyone else already knew that, but I thought it was cool. 1 - https://www.speedsportlife.com/2010/02/22/avoidable-contact-32-nobody-wants-a-car-to-last-forever/ https://www.speedsportlife.com/2010/02/22/avoidable-contact-...

chrisseaton 6y ago

> The same reason Amazon runs its own shipping network instead of relying on UPS or Fedex. Amazon use off-the-shelf vehicles though. > one of the requirements was long service life I wonder how they require that. Does the manufacturer have to warranty them all for 30 years? That's extraordinary!

TylerE 6y ago
That's rapidly changing. https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/transportation/amazons-custom-electric-delivery-vehicles-are-starting-to-hit-the-road https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/transportation/amazons-cust... "Just one year after announcing the purchase of 100,000 custom electric delivery vehicles as part of The Climate Pledge, Amazon has begun testing the new vans on delivery routes."
altcognito 6y ago
AWS also used "off-the-shelf" CPUs for a long time. That's changing as well. The USPS definitely has the scale and need for customization.
- andoriyu 6y ago
  Not really, CPU is still "of-the-shelf". SoC is custom. That's just because you can't buy Neoverse and drop it into the motherboard, so making a custom SoC is the only way to obtain it. Donut has a good video about LLV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE5FGyq12ds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE5FGyq12ds
dehrmann 6y ago
I don't think Amazon does letter deliveries from the driver seat.
- TylerE 6y ago
  Wouldn't it be funny if they did? I can imagine perhaps USPS contracting out some low volume routes to Amazon.
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    I bet it's the opposite. Amazon delivers in densely populated places where economies of scale make it work and outsources rural delivery to the USPS, an agency with a universal delivery mandate. Yes, the net effect is Amazon "leeching" off the government, but you could also view it as a subsidy to rural Americans, and the government already has a lot of those.
dangerbird2 6y ago
Mail trucks have pretty drastically different requirements than a parcel delivery truck. Mail trucks are designed for a right sided driver and lots of stops on every block, so good visibility to avoid crashing into oncoming traffic or hitting pedestrians in the front is obligatory. Amazon, UPS, and friends have much more infrequent stops. USPS also needs vehicles that can last for decades with much lower maintenance costs than commercial competitors. With the Biden Admin's government fleet electrification plan, they'll also need to be easily built or converted to battery-powered.
- gsnedders 6y ago
  And this is a significant difference to how mail is delivered in most of Europe, where the vast majority of last-mile delivery is done on foot or on bike, and relatively little is done by vehicle. Density undoubtedly plays a fair role here.
  - KingOfCoders 6y ago
    I especially like that one, https://newsroom.hermesworld.com/city-logistik-hermes-testet-paketzustellung-per-lastenrad-in-berlin-15240/ https://newsroom.hermesworld.com/city-logistik-hermes-testet... Was wowed the first time I encountered one.
  - namibj 6y ago
    Not just density. Many neighborhoods aren't (safely) accessible without a car in the US. They may only be connected to a highway, with no bus service to it.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > requirements ... obligatory ... needs ... Yet other countries' mail services manage without all these things just fine?
  - jonfw 6y ago
    The US is unique in it's low population density and enormous scale of it's postal service.
Centigonal 6y ago
> I wonder how they require that. Does the manufacturer have to warranty them all for 30 years? That's extraordinary! In 1986, they road-tested the contract competitors' trucks for 24,000 miles, and the Grumman LLV (the truck that this new vehicle replaces) was the only one running at the end. Definitely not proof that they'd run for the intended 24 year lifespan, but I guess the USPS got lucky with the LLV (they even stretched it 6 years past the original retirement date!). https://www.nytimes.com/1986/04/09/business/postal-contract-won-by-grumman.html https://www.nytimes.com/1986/04/09/business/postal-contract-...
toast0 6y ago
Amazon, UPS, and FedEx all have custom vehicles. Amazon started with off the shelf vehicles, but once you get to ordering 50,000 of something, you may as well make the design fit your needs instead of only meeting them.
jn1234 6y ago
>Amazon use off-the-shelf vehicles though. Not for long, they even invested in Rivian, an EV manufacturer, who is going to build vehicles to their spec.
nine_k 6y ago
OK, both Amazon and Facebook (and likely Google, can't remember) order custom servers for their datacenters, instead of going with readily available Supermicro, Dell, HP, IBM offerings. Same reasoning here: at such a scale, having a custom-built thing optimized for a bunch of your specific requirements, and made uniform, pays off.
Hnrobert42 6y ago
It’s a good question. I went looking for an answer. I found this article [1] which claims the long service life owes to an engine and chassis that, while not exceptionally durable, is cheap and easy to maintain. The article also says you can learn more at llv.com. Bonus, I learned that Grumman LLV stands for Grumman Long Life Vehicle. Maybe everyone else already knew that, but I thought it was cool. 1 - https://www.speedsportlife.com/2010/02/22/avoidable-contact-32-nobody-wants-a-car-to-last-forever/ https://www.speedsportlife.com/2010/02/22/avoidable-contact-...