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The game supports 8 platforms, has virtually miles of terrain, and now Rockstar is suppose to feel ashamed because they didn't fix a big performance issue that

by aantix 6y ago

The game supports 8 platforms, has virtually miles of terrain, and now Rockstar is suppose to feel ashamed because they didn't fix a big performance issue that affected startup times? The game probably has tens of millions of lines of code. I'm glad they shipped. If they can enhance the startup time, great, bonus for them. Additional credit for thanking the third party that uncovered the perf issue.

mdoms 6y ago
> now Rockstar is suppose to feel ashamed because they didn't fix a big performance issue that affected startup times? Yes, they should be ashamed of this.
swagmoney69 6y ago
It's true that the game is probably absurdly complex, but how did they never profile loading times?
malwarebytess 6y ago
I don't think you've been following this story. If you looked into the technical details [0], and surrounding context, you would understand why your comment isn't particularly insightful. For example, terrain has nothing to do with this bug and it isn't a complex fix that interacts with "millions of lines of code." A single run of a profiler would have caught this. I also think it's relevant to note that GTA V has sold 140 million copies, 20 million last year alone, and Rockstar makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year on the title. For a multi billion dollar product to have a known, relatively simple, problem is shameful. I don't know what went wrong, but I don't think it was the competency of engineers or the complexity of the problem that allowed this to fester. [0] https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times-by-70/ https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times...
mlindner 6y ago
I think you missed previous news about this. This was an incredibly trivial issue that would show up in any use of a profiler on the slow startup screens. The fact they didn't is that they're either unable to run profilers on their code at Rockstar (which would be shameful indeed) or they never bothered to do so. Either case shows egg on face at Rockstar.
- hntrader 6y ago
  Strange that this was this downvoted. It is an issue that a single dev with a profiler should've been able to identify very easily. That they hadn't addressed it despite it being such an annoyance for so many users for so long is embarrassing. Not to take away from the feat and initiative of doing so without access to source code.
  - grayclhn 6y ago
    +1 — it’s an item a single person without access to the source code was able to diagnose and fix.
    - ryandrake 6y ago
      I’m pretty shocked at all the defending of the game company here, honestly. Highly visible bug, affecting high percentage of users, relatively simple fix. I take pride in the software I wrote and would be personally very embarrassed if I caused this AND didn’t fix it for years. I guess companies don’t have feelings and can’t feel shame but I would personally feel shame as a supposed professional! There are a lot of excuses for why this wasn’t fixed but no great reasons.
      - rectang 6y ago
        The idea that screwups are "shameful" is poison in any organization. I fight it in the companies I work for, I fight it here. Bugs happen. Serious bugs happen. They will always happen. Shaming people for bugs undermines institutional robustness against bugs because it incentivizes people to hide mistakes. Furthermore, companies with blame-n-shame culture typically fault users when those users make inevitable "mistakes" statistically guaranteed by bad UX design. In contrast, transparency is good, acknowledgment is good. Rockstar acknowledged fault and rewarded the reporter, which is difficult. That's a positive institutional arc I'd like to encourage, at Rockstar and in the wider industry. If you stop at "embarrassing", I'm with you. But when you proceed to "shameful", that's quite different and we part ways.

by aantix 6y ago

mdoms 6y ago

> now Rockstar is suppose to feel ashamed because they didn't fix a big performance issue that affected startup times? Yes, they should be ashamed of this.

swagmoney69 6y ago

It's true that the game is probably absurdly complex, but how did they never profile loading times?

malwarebytess 6y ago

I don't think you've been following this story. If you looked into the technical details [0], and surrounding context, you would understand why your comment isn't particularly insightful. For example, terrain has nothing to do with this bug and it isn't a complex fix that interacts with "millions of lines of code." A single run of a profiler would have caught this. I also think it's relevant to note that GTA V has sold 140 million copies, 20 million last year alone, and Rockstar makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year on the title. For a multi billion dollar product to have a known, relatively simple, problem is shameful. I don't know what went wrong, but I don't think it was the competency of engineers or the complexity of the problem that allowed this to fester. [0] https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times-by-70/ https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times...

mlindner 6y ago

I think you missed previous news about this. This was an incredibly trivial issue that would show up in any use of a profiler on the slow startup screens. The fact they didn't is that they're either unable to run profilers on their code at Rockstar (which would be shameful indeed) or they never bothered to do so. Either case shows egg on face at Rockstar.

hntrader 6y ago
Strange that this was this downvoted. It is an issue that a single dev with a profiler should've been able to identify very easily. That they hadn't addressed it despite it being such an annoyance for so many users for so long is embarrassing. Not to take away from the feat and initiative of doing so without access to source code.
- grayclhn 6y ago
  +1 — it’s an item a single person without access to the source code was able to diagnose and fix.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    I’m pretty shocked at all the defending of the game company here, honestly. Highly visible bug, affecting high percentage of users, relatively simple fix. I take pride in the software I wrote and would be personally very embarrassed if I caused this AND didn’t fix it for years. I guess companies don’t have feelings and can’t feel shame but I would personally feel shame as a supposed professional! There are a lot of excuses for why this wasn’t fixed but no great reasons.
    - rectang 6y ago
      The idea that screwups are "shameful" is poison in any organization. I fight it in the companies I work for, I fight it here. Bugs happen. Serious bugs happen. They will always happen. Shaming people for bugs undermines institutional robustness against bugs because it incentivizes people to hide mistakes. Furthermore, companies with blame-n-shame culture typically fault users when those users make inevitable "mistakes" statistically guaranteed by bad UX design. In contrast, transparency is good, acknowledgment is good. Rockstar acknowledged fault and rewarded the reporter, which is difficult. That's a positive institutional arc I'd like to encourage, at Rockstar and in the wider industry. If you stop at "embarrassing", I'm with you. But when you proceed to "shameful", that's quite different and we part ways.