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Apologizing just gives fuel for revenge. In this case I think because the harm done was so small, it was economical to apologize. Edit: an anecdote from the pr

Apologizing just gives fuel for revenge. In this case I think because the harm done was so small, it was economical to apologize. Edit: an anecdote from the professor of my college's startup program (a hundred-millionaire former CEO/founder)- "never say sorry."

abhorrence 6y ago
There are at least some examples of startups choosing to apologize, and try to make things better in the future. I think the real advice is “don’t say sorry unless you actually mean it.” People see right through that, because your actions and follow through won’t match your words. But people seem to appreciate sincere apologies that come with substantive corrective action.
tinus_hn 6y ago
You can easily just not say anything at all
el_dev_hell 6y ago
> Apologizing just gives fuel for revenge. In this case I think because the harm done was so small, it was economical to apologize. Yeah, it's always a tradeoff. I worked at a non-tech fortune 500 for a few years and was able to see the inside of repair/warranty/disputes. These were very high ticket items and the brand was/is very highly regarded for after sales support. In the employee handbook for repair support staff (the people communicating with clients about the status of their repair/claim) there was a passage similar to the below: "Apologies MUST NOT acknowledge anything other than the customer's explicit feelings without written acknowledgment of fault from $MANAGER". I asked a member of that team to decipher WTF that meant, and they showed me an example email. They were only allowed to apologise in the below way: "Hi bob, we're sorry you feel our product is faulty". I always found these weasel apologies infuriating in my personal life.
- josephg 6y ago
  Yep that’s awful. The reason for that rule is probably legal. If your company is taken to court over damages resulting from a faulty product, a written acknowledgment of blame will probably make that worse for the company. It’s still awful though. I would hesitate to do business with a company that doesn’t take any responsibility for their own products.
  - lupire 6y ago
    Right, so the company is saying "I will never acknowledge our mistakes because if I do we might have to fix them." or "I am trying to trick you into thinking I am apologizing even though I'm not". That's more offensive and insulting and time-wasting than saying nothing.
    - solveit 6y ago
      More charitably, people have an instinctive tendency to bend over backwards to apologize for things they're not responsible for in the interest of cordial relations. This is good if you're casually trying to make friends, but bad if the other party might take you to court. Companies therefore very reasonably explicitly correct for this behaviour.
      - el_dev_hell 6y ago
        Yeah, I agree. Avoiding apologies is probably a good idea for the company. The part that stuck with me was the "acceptable" pseudo-apology. Not apologised at all comes off better than a backhanded apology IMO.
    - el_dev_hell 6y ago
      You're right about it being a tricky attempt at faking an apology. But the below isn't correct: > Right, so the company is saying "I will never acknowledge our mistakes because if I do we might have to fix them." I probably didn't word it perfectly in my original comment, but the company did acknowledge mistakes quite often after assessments of the claimed faulty/broken/whatever product (roughly 30% of faulty claims were approved and either repaired or reimbursed from memory). The rejected claims were often taken to court (like 15%) due to the value of products. I was mostly commenting on the deception of only allowing pseudo-apologies.
rectang 6y ago
> "never say sorry." Well, this HN hate fest of a discussion certainly bears out that saying! The internet is a terrible place. You will get dragged mercilessly no matter what you do. The incentives are all towards sweeping mistakes under the rug.

abhorrence 6y ago

There are at least some examples of startups choosing to apologize, and try to make things better in the future. I think the real advice is “don’t say sorry unless you actually mean it.” People see right through that, because your actions and follow through won’t match your words. But people seem to appreciate sincere apologies that come with substantive corrective action.

tinus_hn 6y ago

You can easily just not say anything at all

el_dev_hell 6y ago

> Apologizing just gives fuel for revenge. In this case I think because the harm done was so small, it was economical to apologize. Yeah, it's always a tradeoff. I worked at a non-tech fortune 500 for a few years and was able to see the inside of repair/warranty/disputes. These were very high ticket items and the brand was/is very highly regarded for after sales support. In the employee handbook for repair support staff (the people communicating with clients about the status of their repair/claim) there was a passage similar to the below: "Apologies MUST NOT acknowledge anything other than the customer's explicit feelings without written acknowledgment of fault from $MANAGER". I asked a member of that team to decipher WTF that meant, and they showed me an example email. They were only allowed to apologise in the below way: "Hi bob, we're sorry you feel our product is faulty". I always found these weasel apologies infuriating in my personal life.

josephg 6y ago
Yep that’s awful. The reason for that rule is probably legal. If your company is taken to court over damages resulting from a faulty product, a written acknowledgment of blame will probably make that worse for the company. It’s still awful though. I would hesitate to do business with a company that doesn’t take any responsibility for their own products.
- lupire 6y ago
  Right, so the company is saying "I will never acknowledge our mistakes because if I do we might have to fix them." or "I am trying to trick you into thinking I am apologizing even though I'm not". That's more offensive and insulting and time-wasting than saying nothing.
  - solveit 6y ago
    More charitably, people have an instinctive tendency to bend over backwards to apologize for things they're not responsible for in the interest of cordial relations. This is good if you're casually trying to make friends, but bad if the other party might take you to court. Companies therefore very reasonably explicitly correct for this behaviour.
    - el_dev_hell 6y ago
      Yeah, I agree. Avoiding apologies is probably a good idea for the company. The part that stuck with me was the "acceptable" pseudo-apology. Not apologised at all comes off better than a backhanded apology IMO.
  - el_dev_hell 6y ago
    You're right about it being a tricky attempt at faking an apology. But the below isn't correct: > Right, so the company is saying "I will never acknowledge our mistakes because if I do we might have to fix them." I probably didn't word it perfectly in my original comment, but the company did acknowledge mistakes quite often after assessments of the claimed faulty/broken/whatever product (roughly 30% of faulty claims were approved and either repaired or reimbursed from memory). The rejected claims were often taken to court (like 15%) due to the value of products. I was mostly commenting on the deception of only allowing pseudo-apologies.

rectang 6y ago

> "never say sorry." Well, this HN hate fest of a discussion certainly bears out that saying! The internet is a terrible place. You will get dragged mercilessly no matter what you do. The incentives are all towards sweeping mistakes under the rug.